Technical Wading Depth

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Technical Wading Depth

roverp480

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Sorry to bring this up again but cannot find a specific answer. I have just picked up a Panda 2019 Twin Air 4x4 & cannot find anything in Handbook about wading depth and searching here seems to have plenty of opinions but no official Fiat recommendation. Am I right in thinking Fiat has not made any specific statement or advise on the subject .
My old Ford B Max has a max wading depth stated and was expecting Fiat to be the same.
 
I met someone yesterday who didn't like being told a road was closed by a flood... "even with a 4x4?' he asked... (big Mitsubishi). Yes, was the reply... four wheel drive means you can cross slippery surfaces, but doesn't make the car any more waterproof. The water under a low railway bridge was waist high.

To answer the question: several factors here. the air intake to the engine is on a level with the centre of the headlights - so you could say that was the limit. But, there are numbers electronic devices lower down than that, both under the bonnet and inside the car. Get more than a few cm in the footwell and you can kiss goodbye to most of the safety circuits (airbag controls etc)

As well as electrical items, things like the gearbox and rear diff have breathers on them, which need to stay dry. These are not very high off the ground, lower than the engine air intake (when you see Landrovers wading in very deep water, they have (or should have) 'wading plugs' fitted to these vents to keep water out of the gear oil). OK for a brief journey through a deeper puddle but anything which would submerge these (especially when they are warm) is likely to draw water into the system (partly through the cooling effect of the cold water)

Then there's the bits and bobs that go between the inside of the car and under the bonnet - the steering column, brake control and so on. And, at the back there is a large open vent behind the back bumper too...

Fiat's (often inaccurate when it comes to detail) press release says over 700mm. I don't believe that for a moment. Many much larger off roaders have a limit of just 500mm. But this article suggests a more believable 410mm - which i reckon is water that I could, just, walk through with my posh French wellies without it coming over the tops. https://autoprova.be/2020/02/16/we-...-x-4-your-cute-compact-companion-on-any-road/

I would be very wary about anything deeper than the the top of the sills / bottom of the doors personally... unless other measures have been put in place to keep water out.
 
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Having just left the Suzuki Jimny fraternity and arrived here with the much more delicate 4x4 Panda, which I believe was probably designed more for getting skiers up to their resorts in the Italian Alps rather than mud-plugging, I was surprised that people do off-road the Panda.

Last year I attended what was the biggest gathering of Jimnys and witnessed just what they are capable of doing. However, as has been pointed out breathers on axles and other components should be taken into consideration and at the meeting I was advised not to wade too deeply in my standard Jimny.
The Jimny is exceedingly simple and easy to work on and many people added breathing tubes for the axles and fitted snorkels.

The Jimny also sits much higher than the Panda so I would urge great caution before trying to attempt to do what other mud-plugging vehicles do!

For your amusement, but you wouldn't do this in a Panda!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGfxpmBXtjk

And taking it a little more to the extreme (this is hilarious!) :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr8eEWyKQHM

The only thing I'm a tad dismayed about with the Panda, for a 4x4, I think the handbrake is actually very poor (I just had my rear brakes overhauled;new discs and pads etc but I'm still not impressed), whether the Panda Cross has a different (better) handbrake set-up I don't know; perhaps someone here does?
 
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Having just left the Suzuki Jimny fraternity and ... the only thing I'm a tad dismayed about with the Panda, for a 4x4, I think the handbrake is actually very poor (I just had my rear brakes overhauled;new discs and pads etc but I'm still not impressed), whether the Panda Cross has a different (better) handbrake set-up I don't know; perhaps someone here does?
The handbrake (on the versions with disc brakes) is poor...
 
... and the Cross's brakes are the same as on the ordinary 4x4.
Indeed. In fact, everything on the Cross is the same as the 4x4 mechanically - suspension, brakes, engine, etc - apart from the added Hill Descent Control (which, technically is an electronic alteration, not mechanical :) ) Fiat's clever advertising suggests the Cross is somehow 'more off-roady', but (apart from that HDC) all the extra cost is in added plastic trim or useful interior features like auto climate and split rear seats.
 
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I would be very wary about anything deeper than the the top of the sills / bottom of the doors personally... unless other measures have been put in place to keep water out.
Good advice.

Also, note that quoted wading depth will almost certainly be for static water -- a fast-flowing flood, even if not very deep, can easily sweep a vehicle sideways. I heard of one incident where a large 4x4 (Hilux) with lots of ground clearance, crossing a ford less than 12” deep, was dragged downstream backwards by the force of flood water acting on a low-slung livestock trailer that it was towing.

In any flood, there is quite likely to be a deposit of slippery mud on the road surface. A situation in which you have reduced traction due to mud, combined with sideways pressure from flowing water, can be distinctly dangerous.
 
The handbrake (on the versions with disc brakes) is poor...

Japanese cars seem to be equipped with excellent hand brakes. Its a pitty EU makers dont look at why!

I have never found any issue with the handbrake on my 4x4s and find it will hold on a 1 in 4 with a decent and reasonable pull.

On a lot of disc braked cars the hand brake works through the brake caliper and I find that a firm foot on the footbrake as the hand brake is applied makes quite a difference as the brake pistons are already holding the car so when the HB is then applied it holds much easier. .. or am I just imagining this?
 
Japanese cars seem to be equipped with excellent hand brakes. Its a pitty EU makers dont look at why!

I have never found any issue with the handbrake on my 4x4s and find it will hold on a 1 in 4 with a decent and reasonable pull.

On a lot of disc braked cars the hand brake works through the brake caliper and I find that a firm foot on the footbrake as the hand brake is applied makes quite a difference as the brake pistons are already holding the car so when the HB is then applied it holds much easier. .. or am I just imagining this?
You’re right - the handbrake will hold if pulled up hard. But try using it to stop the car if moving ( in neutral) and not much happens. And yes, you’re also right that because the handbrake works by pushing the piston from the back, applying the footbrake at the same time makes a big difference. Same to release it. It’s not ‘bad’, but not great by comparison with my Ford Focus based Volvo for example.
 
Thanks chaps! Part of my driveway is on a slope and it happens to be where I park.

Wifey wrote off her Vauxhall Meriva when the (useless) handbrake didn't hold and it went down the slope and the rear of the front right wheel clipped a lamp post demolishing the suspension and gearbox (and that was with it left in gear too). The Meriva handbrake was always freezing on too - I saw several Merivas in icy conditions leaving car parks or in town pulling themselves along with the rear wheels locked!


Ever since that incident, I acquired some solid rubber chocks that have more slope on one side than the other, so they can be driven over easily but have the steeper side against the tyre after they've been driven over.

I didn't realise all Jap cars are regarded as having good handbrakes; I thought it was just the Jimny.

I'll make a point of squeezing the Panda brake-pedal harder as I apply the h'brake, in future. Thanks for the tip
 
What diameter drums :discs

Best FIAT handbrakes I had were on 1990 era Tipo.. they were @150% the surface area of panda and uno etc

But I agree they are Not the best..
Lousy self adjusters do not help matters
We’re talking 4x4 Panda here - which has 240mm discs at the rear and 257mm at the front.
 
The Barchetta's handbrake (also rear discs) is legendary for its awfulness. Always a white-knuckle issue for Barchetta owners at MOT time over whether it will pass - and if it does, there's usually an advisory to say that the handbrake is poor.
 
I have a 100HP 169 Panda. The handbrake (I believe the same as later 4x4 Pandas) will early lock the rear wheels. As the two cables reach near to the brake lever, it would be quite easy to fit a fiddle brake setup which would be handy on a 4x4.
 
I have a 100HP 169 Panda. The handbrake (I believe the same as later 4x4 Pandas) will early lock the rear wheels. As the two cables reach near to the brake lever, it would be quite easy to fit a fiddle brake setup which would be handy on a 4x4.

The 4x4 does this it's self.
With the ELD button pressed it'll use the ABS/Traction Control to monitor each wheel and if needed, fiddle the brakes for you.

It'll grab the brake of a slipping wheel, sending power to the other wheel on the axle.
It doesn't just work on the rear axle either, it'll do the same on the front and a whole lot quicker.

I used to park up in soggy, wet fields and when it was time to go, just bury the throttle. You could feel it nipping away at the wheels.


I believe the offical wading depth of the 4x4 is 400mm, though the motoring press have being measuring the height of the air intake and reporting that (around 700+mm) as it's max depth, which is a recipe for disaster.
 
...I believe the offical wading depth of the 4x4 is 400mm, though the motoring press have being measuring the height of the air intake and reporting that (around 700+mm) as it's max depth, which is a recipe for disaster.

That 400mm tallies (+/- 10mm) with the quote I put up earlier (see post 3) so i'd say that was about right! That's not bad going for what is basically a small town car with added driven wheels!

And yes, to the brakes: select 'ELD on' on the 4x4, or turn the Cross' dial to 'off road mode' (which does the same thing as the 4x4 button being pushed) and the ABS-cleverness will brake a freely-spinning wheel for you.
 
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