Technical The difference of Alloys?

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Technical The difference of Alloys?

I vaguely remember reading, a long time ago , that alloy wheels enabled greater cooling of brakes in competition driving.

If that was due too greater air flow through more open designs in alloy wheels or greater heat conduction into the material of the wheel itself or both I don't know.

More important years ago as brake pad materials were less effective when very hot than materials now perhaps?

Jack
 
Yep, correct Joe, open spoke wheels simply let more air flow around the brakes. Another handy thing is, you can view the discs through the open design and get an idea how things are doing disc wise and you can see pad wear as well.
 
Both wheels off a 2010 renault Clio mk3

Both wheels renault original parts

Each wheel and tyre was weighed 3 times and gave the same reading each time.

Steel wheel 13.3kg fitted with Michelin energy saver tyre

Alloy wheel 15.2kg fitted with nexen n blue tyre

Hope this helps and is interesting.

Very interesting as the difference is quite significant for modest sized wheels. Can't imagine what the difference would be on a gigantic BMW 4x4, though probably a moot point for the owners.

I think Aluminium does indeed disperse heat better than steel but as we'd expected, alloys are merely decorative at this level.

Back to the thread - are they worth having? Not really but it's personal choice in the end. Money would be better spent on another soft alloy - a gold sovereign or half-sovereign (depending on budget) will last longer and most likely reward you in 10 years' time.
 
It seems to be entirely a 'fashion' choice, and varies from market to market. Look though the Fiat websites for each country the Panda is sold in - as mines a 4x4 that's what I looked at. In the UK, alloys, but in Germany, France and Italy - steel wheels are standard. Personally I'd prefer the steels (those on the 4x4 are a very 'open' design, not unlike a 'old fashioned' alloy.). This same pattern steel wheels are put on the Waze and City Cross models here in the UK - but with wheel covers to look alloy-like!
Germany: https://www.fiat.de/konfigurator/panda-4x4/#/version/0031917R3000/exteriors
Italy: https://www.fiat.it/panda/configuratore-panda-4x4/#/version/0031917R3000/exteriors
UK - where steel is not even an option: https://www.fiat.co.uk/configurator/panda-4x4/#/version/0031917R3000/exteriors

(Curious that only in the UK is white offered, and in Germany the Orange is free, but here a £350 option?)
 
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Both wheels off a 2010 renault Clio mk3

Both wheels renault original parts

Each wheel and tyre was weighed 3 times and gave the same reading each time.

Steel wheel 13.3kg fitted with Michelin energy saver tyre

Alloy wheel 15.2kg fitted with nexen n blue tyre

Hope this helps and is interesting.

It's flipping hot out there already, be careful everyone.

Jack

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Same story go's for Bravo wheels, steel is lighter then the same specs Alloy.
 
Wheels have gotten way too big these days and as alloy seems to be heavier than tyres, the bigger the diameter the heavier the wheel. Although 'small' by modern standards, the stock 9"x19" alloys on my RS6 weighed 26kg with tyres fitted - that's as much as the biggest of suitcases that people used to fly with in the old days..... Controlling that at high speed in bump and rebound takes a huge amount of effort from the dampers and making those same devices work at low speeds as well is hard. Top end suspension really does cost (a proper Ohlins kit for most cars should be £3k-4k), but it's needed more and more these days to control the fashionista's and their 23"+ pointless wheel sizes.

Good value, good quality aftermarket suspension is easily attainable, but only really works well on small, light, intelligent cars with low-mass, efficient wheel and tyre sizes of the type we all buy and love (y)

/RANT=OFF
 
If you fit alloys, your insurance company will view this as a modification. Premiums may go up, sometimes alarmingly, so ask first.

Only if you fit non OE alloys for the model.
E.G if your City cross came with steels and you decide to fit at a later date the OE alloy option this will not effect your insurance.
Been there and got the T shirt some time ago.
 
That's why i run 16" steel Bravo wheels, they weigh more or less the same as the normal 15" LM wheels on a Panda, but with much better driving performance.
With my 16" steel wheel layout it's the best driving Panda set-up IMHO.

The new red 17" Bravo wheel, will probably look great but drive-wise it will be a major down-grade compare to my 16" set-up.
The Bravo wheel weight 11+ Kg without a tire, probably close to 20kg with tyre.
That would be 4-5kg per corner heavier, unsprung mass.
 
If you fit alloys, your insurance company will view this as a modification. Premiums may go up, sometimes alarmingly, so ask first.

Only if you fit non OE alloys for the model.
E.G if your City cross came with steels and you decide to fit at a later date the OE alloy option this will not effect your insurance.
Been there and got the T shirt some time ago.

I guess it will depend on individual insurance companies then, as my experience with several of my learner pupils is that even OE spec alloys push premiums up.

Best to ask the insurance company first.

The Fabia I use as a learner car was originally fitted with alloys as standard. For me the dealer fitted steels from another car, same size and tyre size. The insurance company didn't mind the spec change. The learners can now bounce off kerbs without worry.
 
I guess it will depend on individual insurance companies then, as my experience with several of my learner pupils is that even OE spec alloys push premiums up.

Just to confirm this point, I fitted OE Punto wheels to my 2004 Punto and direct line wanted more money for the change of wheels, even though they are genuine fiat wheels meant for that specific Punto. Plenty of Punto's were fitted with alloys from new including the same model as mine, so you absolutely do have to run it by the insurance company and it is very much possible they will charge you more even for original wheels.
 
Just to confirm this point, I fitted OE Punto wheels to my 2004 Punto and direct line wanted more money for the change of wheels, even though they are genuine fiat wheels meant for that specific Punto. Plenty of Punto's were fitted with alloys from new including the same model as mine, so you absolutely do have to run it by the insurance company and it is very much possible they will charge you more even for original wheels.

But if they were the correct period alloys for that car and a very common option, nobody would be able to say how the car was delivered to you, particularly if you bought it 2nd hand. Bottom line in this type of situation is that Insurance Co decided to charge more because it could and because you asked. In fact the very fact that someone wants to make a change to a car is what often flags up increased premiums, as 'modifiers' are seen as fundamentally more risky, irrespective of vehicle concerned.
 
But if they were the correct period alloys for that car and a very common option, nobody would be able to say how the car was delivered to you, particularly if you bought it 2nd hand. Bottom line in this type of situation is that Insurance Co decided to charge more because it could and because you asked. In fact the very fact that someone wants to make a change to a car is what often flags up increased premiums, as 'modifiers' are seen as fundamentally more risky, irrespective of vehicle concerned.

Insurance co see it as a 'modification', which can be assessed as higher risk, hence higher premium.

A few years ago, one of my learners had bought herself a 106, very tidy, with OE alloys. Insurance co aksed about mods, listed a few including the question of alloys. According to their records, it was not supplied with alloys when new, even though they were an option for the first owner. Difference I premium then was over double. She was devastated.

I suggested the seller might well have the original steels in his shed/garage/loft and be pleased to dispose of them. No market for steels for 106/Saxo. The following week, it sat there on steels with new tyres. Seller had given the wheels, a local independent tyre shop had fitted new budget tyres, sold the alloys for her, and given her some money back!

Another student, after passing his test, added alloys, paid the extra premium, then added bodykit, factory approved suspension kit, then had some factory approveed engine work too, with a special exhaust developed for that. All was factory approved for Corsa. Each mod added more premium, until one point where the premium started to drop instead. There comes a time where all the mods were viewed differently, with all that spent, the threshold had been passed from 'idiot' to 'proud enthusisast'.
That was over 10 years ago, he still has the car, now as an occasional use toy.
 
There comes a time where all the mods were viewed differently, with all that spent, the threshold had been passed from 'idiot' to 'proud enthusisast'.

Which kind of proves the point and is very refreshing to hear - every action is analysed and the risk assessed and priced accordingly. That's the reason that many 'specialist' insurers only take on heavily modified cars as they accept that the owners are a different breed to other part-time and higher risk 'modders'.

My main point about the alloys however is that if a car is bought secondhand, then it is not necessarily possible to know what is standard and what isn't. My friend up the road bought a better looking set of BMW i3 wheels for his BMW i3, ie: ones that he admitted he should have ordered when new. If he sells it the next owner won't face the risk having insurance withdrawn because of non-disclosure as he would have been none the wiser - Insurance companies have to prove that someone knowingly doesn't disclose and that it had a material effect on the claim to stand up in court. But of course most insurance companies with charge extra where they possibly can.
 
If he sells it the next owner won't face the risk having insurance withdrawn because of non-disclosure as he would have been none the wiser - Insurance companies have to prove that someone knowingly doesn't disclose and that it had a material effect on the claim to stand up in court. But of course most insurance companies with charge extra where they possibly can.

It depends if the insurance company think the new owner had reasonable grounds to believe they where not the standard wheels, for example every car of a particular model type has alloys A but your same car has alloys from a much higher level of trim, maybe they're 19 inch sports wheels with very low profile tyres.
They may argue that you knew these where not the standard wheels for the car.

If your car would otherwise be fitted with steel wheels then its reasonable that you knew they where not standard wheels.

It depends on the circumstances, for example if the car gets written off because someone crashes into it, they might not care what wheels are fitted as they are only paying out for the value of the standard car, wanna argue about the expensive wheels they may take a look into that.

If you are claiming for an expensive set of wheels damaged by a pot hole then they will look to see what wheels your car should/would have. If it doesn't match they may ask questions.

Insurance companies are having to do this because as usual people take the P1ss and claim for that set of buckled wheels they bought off ebay last week.

I don't mind paying a few quid more to make sure things are covered properly. I don't think doubling someones insurance is very fair.

Ask yourself how many times on this forum do people ask about fitting wheels from different cars, grande punto to older punto or ford wheels they happen to have laying about, the general public are largely ignorant and think all wheels fit all cars. So if it were a free for all then you would get some very questionable adaptations by people to botch a set of wheels onto a car they thought would look good.
 
My insurance company were happy for me to fit winter tyres, with no premium adjustment, but pleased to note it.
They were a little confused about my DRLs. One of the standard fog lights caught a stone. Expensive to replace, something I'd never use, not good to look at when broken. So I got a set of round DRLs which fit neatly in the foglamp holes. Insurance company will only pay to reset to standard, but OE fogs are twice the price of the DRLs. We agreed if it got damaged, I'd sort the DRLs and they'd not replace the fogs.
 
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