Technical Ordering Brakes: Genuine, APC or MagMar?

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Technical Ordering Brakes: Genuine, APC or MagMar?

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I'm going to order new brakes for the Panda Easy. I've got three choices I'm tore between...

Genuine / Fiat parts: £40 for discs on S4P / online

APC: The actual maker of the Fiat stamped parts alongside the Fiat logos, BUT their own non Fiat branded compatible parts cost less. Is there a difference in quality?

Magnetti Marelli: Fiat's other brand. Seems to be the cheapest / recommended option for a non brand new car but if they're much cheaper.. what gives?

I'm not afraid to spend the money on the car but only if there's a good reason / quality to be had. I know all brakes are built to the same safety standard but I've had cheap makes before that squeal and don't last very long etc so I'll pay for the real deal now. I'd also like to keep the car 100% Fiat too, unless there are any good reasons not to?
 
I have to ask, do you really need them?

VW kept telling me my golf needed new brakes for ages, I never bothered to get them done because I knew they were good, 60,000 miles and they changed them for free after I complained about something. Asked them to put the old ones in the boot and measured them afterwards, and they where about 20% worn compared to the new ones.

Our mini is slightly newer than your panda being a December 2017 car and that doesn’t. Need the brakes doing despite my wife being very heavy on brakes and she does a 70 mile commute every day.

Your little panda doesn’t have many miles and it’s largely well looked after, I don’t think your the sort of person who drives like an idiot so...

Do you really need to replace them?
 
Pretty sure 'Marelli' were sold off last year

However they have a very good reputation

S4P.. it is FIAT parts ?
or OEM spec (fiat equivalent)parts?

I went for OEM.. and got an Italian brand I'd never heard of.. however they lasted the 6 years I kept the car without issue.

'Your money..your car' ;)
 
The driving style will dictate the lifespan.. ;)

Shaun had probably only driven 1/3 of its miles..
However the stories of 500's needing discs and pads at 20k does make it well worth checking though.

My punto Ta is on original kit at 52k from new..by me :p

Our panda TA looks <50% worn at 18k

Buy them anyway.. you can fit in a year if they are good now. :)
 
Doubt about the quality of brake parts you are using on your car is a very anxiety inducing subject isn't it. I think to be safe using a "big name" and, perhaps, paying a premium price for it can go a long way to alleviating this but there are very strict quality parameters which manufacturers have to comply with so most products supplied from a trusted source (locally based large factoring chains and main dealers and others - like S4p for instance - who are known quantities) should be fine. I think random internet purchases for any safety related component is probably risky so I wouldn't do it. My local factor sells this brand:
https://www.apecbraking.co.uk/
I have their pads/shoes, wheel cylinders and calipers fitted to several of the family vehicles and they've been absolutely fine with good braking performance and long life.
 
I'm with Jock, at this level of brake parts it is much of a muchness, for your wee panda I certainly would not be spending loads. If at all possible a local factor would be my first stop. "IF" you want to spend more Mtec are good, they have the grooves & dimples that look the part if that's your bag without spending that much more.
 
By the way for those forum members who are just starting to get interested in maintaining their cars or simply just wonder how things work, if you click on the Apec Braking link I gave above then click on "Resources" you'll find a whole lot of very interesting bulletins, technicians guides etc. I suggest though that beginners click on "Vehicle Visuals" where you'll find a number of very informative videos with simple explanatory voice overs.
 
My previous lounge lived by the sea on its first owner.
The front discs were very badly rusted and worn at just 19,000 miles. The dealer was uninterested. I fitted £20 discs from my local auto shop. I fitted them along with new pads, Ferodo were the best price. I did the job for under £40. Didn't have any issues at all.
The City Cross, has vented front discs incidentally.
 
My 4x4 seemed to get through a lot of discs. I did about 90,000 miles in it but that was pretty much all motorway miles which did not require much in the way of braking. As a result my discs seemed to get rusty and pitted (or at least that is what the dealer told me). Perhaps having regular trips to the Scottish Islands and leaving my car parked on various seaside roads for weeks at a time also contributed?
 
My 4x4 seemed to get through a lot of discs. I did about 90,000 miles in it but that was pretty much all motorway miles which did not require much in the way of braking. As a result my discs seemed to get rusty and pitted (or at least that is what the dealer told me). Perhaps having regular trips to the Scottish Islands and leaving my car parked on various seaside roads for weeks at a time also contributed?
Did you go to the main dealer all the time?
 
Did you go to the main dealer all the time?

Yes which was probably a mistake, but it was my local garage and when I first got my car (back in 2013) it was a family firm, later they sold the business to Stoneacre and wasn't really the same after that.
 
I have to ask, do you really need them?

VW kept telling me my golf needed new brakes for ages, I never bothered to get them done because I knew they were good, 60,000 miles and they changed them for free after I complained about something. Asked them to put the old ones in the boot and measured them afterwards, and they where about 20% worn compared to the new ones.

Our mini is slightly newer than your panda being a December 2017 car and that doesn’t. Need the brakes doing despite my wife being very heavy on brakes and she does a 70 mile commute every day.

Your little panda doesn’t have many miles and it’s largely well looked after, I don’t think your the sort of person who drives like an idiot so...

Do you really need to replace them?

Well, I don't need them in the sense that I feel no grinding and I feel no noticeable decline in braking power - it'll still send me through the window if my feet catch (and they tend to given the bizarre close / angled position of Italian pedals!)

I asked Fiat back in December before I left it in for work out of curiosity, and they said "yes you could really do with new discs and pads" ... I thought okay, but they wanted nearly £200 I'm sure for it so I thought I'll just do them myself. Didn't get around to checking until mid-January and the pads and discs were fine and wearing evenly. So decided they must be fine.

It's just a few months on, it's been on my mind. Perhaps it's silly really to replace them, I'll check them some evening again to see any possible wear.

Though, I thought I'd post in any case even so I could save a link on the computer of the right brand / price / part number for when the time comes.

As for driving like an idiot, any of the times I've tried to I've either embarrassed myself or terrified myself. I like to think my car being as slow as it is is what's keeping me from being tempted to 'push it' lol :D


Front discs on my 2013 4x4 lasted well past 35000 miles, with disc and pad to spare. What's your mileage?

I'm at around 31,000 miles. Got the car last June with 19,000 on it so it's high mileage for me, but I'm unsure if that's considered much in the grand scheme of things

Doubt about the quality of brake parts you are using on your car is a very anxiety inducing subject isn't it. I think to be safe using a "big name" and, perhaps, paying a premium price for it can go a long way to alleviating this but there are very strict quality parameters which manufacturers have to comply with so most products supplied from a trusted source (locally based large factoring chains and main dealers and others - like S4p for instance - who are known quantities) should be fine. I think random internet purchases for any safety related component is probably risky so I wouldn't do it. My local factor sells this brand:
https://www.apecbraking.co.uk/
I have their pads/shoes, wheel cylinders and calipers fitted to several of the family vehicles and they've been absolutely fine with good braking performance and long life.

So you reckon that paying more for 'Fiat' or fancy brands isn't really going to do much.. it'd be worth saving for a decent enough name from the motor factors?

I get the whole strict standards thing and there being no 'deadly bad' option, but I'd happily pay for quality in terms of not squealing, maybe lasting a bit longer with some kind of additive in the pads etc? - does this exist in reality or is this also something that is largely unproven beyond branding?


Thanks everybody for your replies :)
 
Well, I don't need them in the sense that I feel no grinding and I feel no noticeable decline in braking power - it'll still send me through the window if my feet catch (and they tend to given the bizarre close / angled position of Italian pedals!)

I asked Fiat back in December before I left it in for work out of curiosity, and they said "yes you could really do with new discs and pads" ... I thought okay, but they wanted nearly £200 I'm sure for it so I thought I'll just do them myself. Didn't get around to checking until mid-January and the pads and discs were fine and wearing evenly. So decided they must be fine.

It's just a few months on, it's been on my mind. Perhaps it's silly really to replace them, I'll check them some evening again to see any possible wear.

Though, I thought I'd post in any case even so I could save a link on the computer of the right brand / price / part number for when the time comes.

As for driving like an idiot, any of the times I've tried to I've either embarrassed myself or terrified myself. I like to think my car being as slow as it is is what's keeping me from being tempted to 'push it' lol :D




I'm at around 31,000 miles. Got the car last June with 19,000 on it so it's high mileage for me, but I'm unsure if that's considered much in the grand scheme of things



So you reckon that paying more for 'Fiat' or fancy brands isn't really going to do much.. it'd be worth saving for a decent enough name from the motor factors?

I get the whole strict standards thing and there being no 'deadly bad' option, but I'd happily pay for quality in terms of not squealing, maybe lasting a bit longer with some kind of additive in the pads etc? - does this exist in reality or is this also something that is largely unproven beyond branding?


Thanks everybody for your replies :)
My Tipo has done around 36kand(as far as I'm aware) on original pads currently about 60-70% worn
So I'd think yours should be fine for a while yet being a lot lighter car
940kg ish rough guess Vs the Tipo at 1350kg
 
The Panda’s brake pads have a metal ‘tang’ that protrudes from one of the pads, and, once the pads wear to the point where they need replacing, contacts the disc (initially only when you apply the brakes) to give an audible warning that replacement is coming up (by squealing loudly). You will hear this long before any grinding etc (and, as I seem to keep saying on this forum, as described in the instruction book :) )
 
My previous lounge lived by the sea on its first owner.
The front discs were very badly rusted and worn at just 19,000 miles. The dealer was uninterested. I fitted £20 discs from my local auto shop. I fitted them along with new pads, Ferodo were the best price. I did the job for under £40. Didn't have any issues at all.
The City Cross, has vented front discs incidentally.

As well as being ventilated, if they are the same as on the 4x4, they are larger diameter too (257mm compared to 240 on the rest of the Panda range.)
 
I asked Fiat back in December before I left it in for work out of curiosity, and they said "yes you could really do with new discs and pads" ... I thought okay, but they wanted nearly £200 I'm sure for it so I thought I'll just do them myself. Didn't get around to checking until mid-January and the pads and discs were fine and wearing evenly. So decided they must be fine.

It's just a few months on, it's been on my mind. Perhaps it's silly really to replace them, I'll check them some evening again to see any possible wear.

If I'm being cynical, doing pads/brake shoes/discs is a very simple job for the average garage with a very low chance of anything going "wrong" or being "difficult" so profit is good and turn round is quick - makes it very tempting to suggest? On the other hand, when I was on the tools, I've been caught out in the past when I've looked at pads that are maybe two thirds worn and thought to myself "they'll last to the next service" so didn't recommend replacement only to have the customer back in, after maybe 8 or 9 months, with the pads through to the metal! It's something which is so dependent on the driver's foot it's very difficult to guess.

So, now a days, with ultra long service intervals - often too long in my view - many workshops recommend replacement to the customer if the pads are more than half gone to cover themselves. Perhaps you've just fallen foul of someone being nervously ultra careful?

On the other hand don't run them down too thin. Most manufacturers recommend replacement when around 3mm of friction material remains. Modern pads are bonded to their metal backings and if you run them too thin the heat can affect the strength of the bonding medium and the friction material may become debonded with "interesting" results!
 
My 4x4 seemed to get through a lot of discs. I did about 90,000 miles in it but that was pretty much all motorway miles which did not require much in the way of braking. As a result my discs seemed to get rusty and pitted (or at least that is what the dealer told me). Perhaps having regular trips to the Scottish Islands and leaving my car parked on various seaside roads for weeks at a time also contributed?
my 2013 4x4 had the front discs and pads changed at about 35k and 70k miles. And the rear pads, but not discs at around 45k miles. And there was life left in them then... mix of motorway and city plus a little off road. But no real downhill stuff - Hertfordshire not that steep :)
 
Golf brake pads after 60k miles.

Now I should add my car does have regenerative braking so is a lot kinder on the brakes, and I drive in a way that is kind to brakes, however the car is a lot heavier and a lot bigger than a little panda and had twice the milage you’ve got.

My wife is not kind to brakes and her mini does not have regenerative braking and her 2017 car does not need them doing with 33k on the clock.

Might be best just to have a look at them, whip off the front wheels and take a look. Totally unnecessary to replace them otherwise, waste of money and creates waste.
 

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The Panda’s brake pads have a metal ‘tang’ that protrudes from one of the pads, and, once the pads wear to the point where they need replacing, contacts the disc (initially only when you apply the brakes) to give an audible warning that replacement is coming up (by squealing loudly). You will hear this long before any grinding etc (and, as I seem to keep saying on this forum, as described in the instruction book :) )

Ah that's good to know, so they'll get noise (but not deadly grinding on metal noisy) to the point where I can't possibly ignore it and that'll give me time to order new pads.

Golf brake pads after 60k miles.

Now I should add my car does have regenerative braking so is a lot kinder on the brakes, and I drive in a way that is kind to brakes, however the car is a lot heavier and a lot bigger than a little panda and had twice the milage you’ve got.

My wife is not kind to brakes and her mini does not have regenerative braking and her 2017 car does not need them doing with 33k on the clock.

Might be best just to have a look at them, whip off the front wheels and take a look. Totally unnecessary to replace them otherwise, waste of money and creates waste.

Ah I see. Well hopefully mine are fine, but I'll definitely pop the wheels off and have a look and possibly get some photos for reference too. Hopefully they'll not need done yet as I'm thinking now of buying a dash cam setup! Lol

Barely driving it these days given the whole lockdown. Just to take a family member to work around 8 miles every other day
 
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