Yes - try it! Why wouldn't you? Eco mode sucks. It turns your Panda into a sad Panda!

I'd be seriously p*ssed off if mine reverted to Eco mode on every restart. Whose effing car is it, anyway?!!!!

Revert it does. It's really annoying. And Fiat tell me it can't be changed. Likewise the seatbelt beep can't be turned off now (as they did on my previous '15 Cross) for 'health and safety'.

Who's flipping car indeed

markwo said:

...And Fiat tell me it can't be changed. Likewise the seatbelt beep can't be turned off now (as they did on my previous '15 Cross) for 'health and safety'...

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And, we might suggest, the law?
https://etsc.eu/seatbelt-reminders-on-every-new-car-seat-from-2019/

gloomyandy said:

Is ECO mode really that bad? So far I've only driven my new cross in ECO mode and it did not seem particularly bad or anything. My previous 4x4 had a 1.3 MJ so obviously there is a difference there, but to be honest I've been pleasantly surprised at how good the TA seems to feel (though no so pleased with how the consumption is looking - but my MJ was very good averaging just over 66mpg over the six years I had it). I guess I should try turning off ECO mode and see how that feels!

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I have had two TA's since 2017 and the first was quiet and smooth and really slow in eco mode. The new one is much louder and goes really quite well in eco mode and I only use the other setting occasionally and when going up steep hills or thrashing off from Audis and BMW's...

It seems there are some pretty big variations from one car to another.

I am still trying to find out if mine is the 90Hp I paid for or the 85HP stated on its V5.... May be there is a reason for the difference.

I'd be interested to know what you find out. All of the headlines seem to talk about "90", but all of the specs seem to say "eighty something"! Perhaps the FIAT marketing dept. has simply rounded it up!

Oh and as I said I'm totally new to the small FIAT petrol engines, but my TA seems to almost have a growl to it (which having now tried running with ECO turned off I'd say the growl is more noticeable in ECO mode).

Perhaps some of the engine mappings etc. have changed could this be because of the change in the way that emissions/consumption is now measured. This was something else that confused me when looking for my new Panda, some sites seemed to have a relatively high mpg, others a lower one, in theory both for the same car!

gloomyandy said:

I'd be interested to know what you find out. All of the headlines seem to talk about "90", but all of the specs seem to say "eighty something"! Perhaps the FIAT marketing dept. has simply rounded it up!

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Dealer is now on the case and agrees it SHOULD be 90hp as that's what is on all the paperwork from Fiat and from them. If it isn't I want no less than £576 back as that's the price divided by 90 less the price divided by 85 or whatever. I have said I may wish to return the car if its not as it should be and they are not too keen on this as a solution. I will let you all know what happens.

Fiat half heatedly have said its 85HP so its going to be interesting!

Glad our 2013 has a conventional on-off switch

Looking forward to the day it frees off enough to drive like my 50k mile motor in our punto.
That does 99% of its driving in Eco.. as it drives fine like that.

The Panda Nut said:

I have had two TA's since 2017 and the first was quiet and smooth and really slow in eco mode. The new one is much louder and goes really quite well in eco mode and I only use the other setting occasionally and when going up steep hills or thrashing off from Audis and BMW's...

It seems there are some pretty big variations from one car to another.

I am still trying to find out if mine is the 90Hp I paid for or the 85HP stated on its V5.... May be there is a reason for the difference.

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Interesting. When I've driven mrs TinyTurbo's new 4x4 TA with eco on it does seem sharper than my older version in eco mode. But comparing driving both with eco off, it's mine that's much more responsive despite it's alleged 5HP power disadvantage. I'd put that down to the engine in hers still being 'tight'. Maybe they've changed the ECU setting for eco-mode.

The other thing I'd noticed was Fiat's 0-62 mph performance claims. From the 2016 brochure 85HP TA 4x4 12.1 seconds. From the 2019 Brochure the 4x4 TA now with 90HP takes 12.8 seconds. Alleged more power = less quick!!!

Is part of the difference a possible ECU change to meet stricter WLTP emissions and economy tests? Also, are later engines Euro 6 and does that make a difference? My 4x4 is a ‘made in May 18’ car, with 95bhp. But it uses more fuel than my 2013 Euro 5 MJ did. It is notably quicker though - the earlier car only having 75bhp.

TinyTurbo said:

Interesting. When I've driven mrs TinyTurbo's new 4x4 TA with eco on it does seem sharper than my older version in eco mode. But comparing driving both with eco off, it's mine that's much more responsive despite it's alleged 5HP power disadvantage. I'd put that down to the engine in hers still being 'tight'. Maybe they've changed the ECU setting for eco-mode.

The other thing I'd noticed was Fiat's 0-62 mph performance claims. From the 2016 brochure 85HP TA 4x4 12.1 seconds. From the 2019 Brochure the 4x4 TA now with 90HP takes 12.8 seconds. Alleged more power = less quick!!!

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The 85 hp car was very sow at first, but dramatically better almost immediately it reached 4000. I am convinced that there was a running in programme built in, but the new one which (I hope) is 90hp seems quicker even at a low 3300 miles. As to the throttle mapping I have no idea what is going on. There seem to be varieties... The older car was very different in response to the same inputs in the different modes. The new one seems more consistent and responds more as if there is one map and a change in either fuelling or turbo pressure through the eco switch. The new one is much more economical and can do 50mpg reasonable easily on a run, but its running on summer tyres rather than the mud and snows on the previous car. I will see of this car opens up at 4000 miles like the last one. Somehow I doubt this will happen as its so much quicker to start with. Its interesting to hear other peoples experiences. Oddly I have two 1.2 Pandas in the family as well and the 312 model 1.2 is by far the nicest to drive of them all! Its smoother quieter and the controls are all nicer except the lighter steering. Having said that I still love them all more than anything else I have driven.

Did anyone come to a conclusion about the power output of the 2019 Cross 4x4? My FIAT paperwork shows 90hp (as does the FIAT web site), but my newly arrived V5 shows 62KW (which I think means 85HP). I checked the VIN plate in the boot of the car and the type is 312A2000 which I understand is the 85HP version.

All very confusing, I suspect that at the end of the day it doesn't really matter, but it would be good to get to the bottom of this!

The Panda Nut said:

The 85 hp car was very sow at first, but dramatically better almost immediately it reached 4000. I am convinced that there was a running in programme built in, but the new one which (I hope) is 90hp seems quicker even at a low 3300 miles.

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Panda Nut, did you ever work out what the HP of your car is? Did you check the VIN plate what engine type do you have? As above my says it is 312A2000.

gloomyandy said:

Panda Nut, did you ever work out what the HP of your car is? Did you check the VIN plate what engine type do you have? As above my says it is 312A2000.

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For the fourth attempt... This web site drives me mad.

Mine too is a 312A2000 Interesting to see the vin plate is no longer riveted in place but a sticker....

This is not resolved, but will be before much longer as I am considering returning the car if they don't resolver this in the next few weeks. I will give my dealer a fair crack to get an answer from Fiat.

The sold me a 90HP and all the paperwork from them to me and from Fiat to them confirms this except the V% which states its 62KW or 85- HP.

Clearly the people involved don't know that ignoring me is likely to **** me off and this is not a very good move. Fiat customer services have said on the phone 85HP and "don't know".

I have indicated that there are a variety of channels open to me to get recompense for being mis-sold and that I prefer to negotiate. I sincerely hope we don't fall out over this.

All my paperwork stated I ordered and took delivery of a 90HP motor and have a 90HP service agreement too. Dealer's head office are being helpful and have started to pursue Fiat. Lets hope they can resolve it.

I will keep you informed as its clearly not just me affected.

I checked my eco today and it reverts each full switch off. The car goes so well in eco it doesn't matter. Switching eco off is for BIG hills and hooliganism! It goes just a bit better than a 1.2 with eco on and like a bat out of hell with eco off! Its nearly a brisk car.

Most remappers put the Normal 85 map under the Eco button, and the tuned map under normal.
I would say FIAT has done de same but then the other way around, making the car start in Eco.
A remapper could change the maps around.

As a matter of interest (and ignoring for present purposes the "Is mine 90hp or 85hp" issue), are there any other cars on sale at the present time that operate, in their default mode, at a significantly lower power output than that which is quoted in the sales literature?

gar074 said:

As a matter of interest ... are there any other cars on sale at the present time that operate, in their default mode, at a significantly lower power output than that which is quoted in the sales literature?

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I think a lot of cars have a selectable 'sport' mode. Certainly my BMW (and most/all the BMW models) defaults to 'normal' mode, with a centre console paddle to select 'eco' or 'sport' modes.

chr1s said:

I think a lot of cars have a selectable 'sport' mode. Certainly my BMW (and most/all the BMW models) defaults to 'normal' mode, with a centre console paddle to select 'eco' or 'sport' modes.

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Yes, but sport mode typically means a more aggressive throttle map, sharper steering, firmer dampers etc, not more power (apart from a few performance-oriented vehicles that have an overboost mode, or something similar). Your BMW in normal mode offers you the same bhp as in sport mode. And you don't need to select that mode when you start it. All your ponies are available to you from the off.

Hi,

I've had the car a couple of months or so now and covered around 1800 miles. I'm averaging around 40mpg consisting mainly of a 7 mile commute to work and back with the odd longer journey thrown in.

A couple of points:

1) I live in a hilly area and the ECO mode is just useless on the hills and pulling out of a junction can be hairy. It is a real pain having to switch it off everytime I get in the car. I use it when I am in town and that is about it. I've not noticed any particular dip in the economy, which is poor anyway at 40mpg, whether I have had it on or not.

2) Why on earth did they design the dip stick to be the same colour as the oil? I cannot tell the oil level so if someone has any tips on how to read the level, please let me know.