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Old 22-07-2019   #1
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4x4 Twinair limp mode

Apologies for the long post but i'm getting close to giving up

I bought this car for my wife at about 50k miles and over the last 3 years we have been going through all the common problems, groaning during reversing, DMF and clutch.
However there is a niggle that doesnt seem to go away. My wife has reported loss of power and the only sign on the dash is that the gear shift suggestion disappears. No engine light and no start/stop error.
Checked oil level (about half) replaced spark plugs and coil packs
I got a copy of Multi ECU scan and read code P0236-62 - Air supply circuit anomaly
"the fault is intermittent, clear fault codes, observe for future occurences, warning light not activated"
She says its quite frightening when it goes limp mode as it always seems to be when going uphill.
I can't seem to replicate it when I'm driving even when trying to get caught in too high a gear on purpose.
Has anyone experienced anything similar? I thought about MAP sensor but MES seems to be reading the data well. Currently we've swapped so I'm driving the panda everyday and occasionally feels a bit stuttery when starting from cold but this may be normal for the twin.
Any advice or suggestions greatly appreciated
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Old 22-07-2019   #2
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Re: 4x4 Twinair limp mode

Car starts cold in eco mode for around 40 seconds (so 77bhp). Can we assume car 2013 and now done 80k?! Wouldn't be worth doing anything else for me. I'd trade it to Motorpoint for a Panda 1.2 maybe.
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Old 22-07-2019   #3
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Re: 4x4 Twinair limp mode

If I had to guess (and I know nothing) I'd suspect turbo issue and take to specialist. Maybe just split pipe. Doubt quick process.
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Old 22-07-2019   #4
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Thanks for the replies, was desperately hoping there was an easy fix I was missing but maybe itís time has come 😪
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Old 23-07-2019   #5
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Re: 4x4 Twinair limp mode

It's over boosting.
When the engine is under load, like going up hill the turbo is working hard, to regulate boost it should open the wastegate via the actuator.

If it fails to do this, the sensor detects an over boost and trips limp mode.

You need to look at the wastegate arm, actuator and vac pipe.

Though there has been problems with these turbos, early on they seem to have come from the factory with a lot of play in the wastegate arm spindle and I seem to think there was a technical bulletin about them.
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Old 23-07-2019   #6
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Re: 4x4 Twinair limp mode

That sounds very promising @Goudrons

Was that affecting a very short run of builds.??

Charlie
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Old 23-07-2019   #7
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Quote Originally Posted by steloveschips View Post
Thanks for the replies, was desperately hoping there was an easy fix I was missing but maybe itís time has come 😪
Been back to a main dealer..? as updates should be due
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Old 23-07-2019   #8
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Re: 4x4 Twinair limp mode

Bought from a main dealer December 2016, unfortunately no main dealer within 50miles. I suppose worth a call to check recall record
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Old 23-07-2019   #9
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I wonder if because I generally drive it at higher revs Italian tune up style that wastegate is loose for me and doesnít trip limp mode.

Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post
It's over boosting.
When the engine is under load, like going up hill the turbo is working hard, to regulate boost it should open the wastegate via the actuator.

If it fails to do this, the sensor detects an over boost and trips limp mode.

You need to look at the wastegate arm, actuator and vac pipe.

Though there has been problems with these turbos, early on they seem to have come from the factory with a lot of play in the wastegate arm spindle and I seem to think there was a technical bulletin about them.
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Old 23-07-2019   #10
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Re: 4x4 Twinair limp mode

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
That sounds very promising @Goudrons

Was that affecting a very short run of builds.??

Charlie
All I know is from what I have read around the interweb over the years.

The Twinair has started to show some issues at both ends.
There are a fair few Italian posts regarding the motorised throttle body screwing up and issues with the turbo wastegate.

Here's a post for a while ago on here regarding the turbo.
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/...o-twinair.html

When I had mine, I did have a little play and every now and then I could feel the wastegate/spindle flutter or rattle a bit if I caught the throttle right, not all the time, just occasionally particularly when changing up from 1st to 2nd first time of the day.

There was no issue with my Abarth's dustbin sized turbo.

I am trying to remember the wastegate sequence to check if it's moving correctly.
I think it goes something like......

Engine off - wastegate fully open due to no vacuum at all.

Start car and idle - wastegate moves fully closed (actuator pulls the arm attached to the spindle) as vacuum is higher on one side than the other.

Rev the car up - wastegate should start to reopen (release the arm) as the revs climb higher and higher as the vacuum either side starts equaling out.

Shut engine off - wastegate should fully open again (completely release the arm) as there's no vacuum again.
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