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Old 17-08-2019   #16
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Re: Winter Tyres

Panda wheels are available new on erBay for under £40 a corner.
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Old 17-08-2019   #17
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Re: Winter Tyres

Quote Originally Posted by chris3234 View Post
Personally with UK weather
Unless you live in the Scottish Highlands id just stick up with all seasons
If you live in Scotland I'd day winter's are a necessity
We put all seasons on our campevan recently. (Also moved down from 19" to 18" wheels) - can't say I've noticed any less grip than the low profile summer tyres on it before, but on a damp camp site, I now no longer worry about getting off the grass.

Not tried them in winter yet - but I guess they're going to be great.

(They're N607+ if interested)
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Old 17-08-2019   #18
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Re: Winter Tyres

Worth bearing in mind that 'winter' tyres are not just for snow, but for any time the temperature drops below 7C as this is the point below which 'summer' tyres become less effective. There are plenty of cold, wet days in autumn and winter where the temperature is less than that and where the added grip will be noticed.
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Old 18-08-2019   #19
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Re: Winter Tyres

Quote Originally Posted by chris3234 View Post
Personally with UK weather
Unless you live in the Scottish Highlands id just stick up with all seasons
If you live in Scotland I'd day winter's are a necessity
Hi.
Highlands yes a good winter tyre would be a necessity. Last winter here on the west coast in Ayrshire I think we just had one or perhaps two days of slight snow, in fact on those days I wasn't out anyway. I've found the Panda quite grippy anyway in snow and common sense with the right and middle pedals plus keeping a good distance from vehicles in front is the best advice for driving in snow and ice.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #20
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Re: Winter Tyres

Winter tyres in scandanavian countries are pretty much essential as are engine block heaters, and heated seats.

Here in the UK even our worst winters are comparatively mild and you'll probably not gain much from having winter tyres. Its all a bit of a con by the tyre companies to sell more tyres. Also while the compounds they use in winter tyres might be good for sub 7 degree temperatures, they also wear quicker and they are only good for 2- 3 mm of wear before the benefits are lost, they are no longer any good as winter tyres but might have 5- 6 mm of tread left.

Also if you don't have many winters that need them after you buy them and you don't use them the rubber compound will still deteriorate despite lack of use and you end up throwing away perfectly good tyres with loads of treat but not safe on the car as they have become too old.

All rounder tyres are probably best here.

That said I towed my wife's Mini Countryman out of a snow drift with my golf when the beast of the east hit, I have OEM bridgestone Turanza's on my golf which are summer tyres. and still towed a 1600kg SUV on snow. ironically the Mini has the same tyres.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #21
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Re: Winter Tyres

The Panda, on its narrow 155/80 13 tyres, is very good on snow, but when the winters are fitted the difference can be felt. Even on just cold dry days, the winters feel significantly different.

With my driver training work, I get to drive many vehicles, especially Mercedes Sprinter vans, which are rear wheel drive. One company using summer tyres will ground all their delivery vehicles if the weather is icy or snow on the ground, as the vehicles will not go anywhere.
I have however been out several times with the same type of van, on winter tyres, on two inches of untreated snow, and even with a light load, so little weight on the driving wheels, they move around confidently, even on some steep hills. A surprising and significant difference. Some companies are using winters all year aroound. The higher wear rate in summer is easier to bear than changing a few thousand tyres twice a year. Potentially slight squidgyness in summer is not an issue with a delivery van doing mostly local work.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #22
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Re: Winter Tyres

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Winter tyres ... also wear quicker and they are only good for 2- 3 mm of wear before the benefits are lost, they are no longer any good as winter tyres but might have 5- 6 mm of tread left.
My experience with 4x4 Pandas (which have, or at least had) winter tyres fitted as standard by Fiat is that they easily last 36,000 miles, and still had tread to spare at that point (3mm on the fronts). So, with my driving, similar wear life to summer tyres on our other cars.

They still have 'useable tread' to the same 1.6mm legal limit as summer tyres. For any tyre - not just winters - 4mm of tread is recommended to cope with snow or slush, and in so the law in some countries (eg Austria) requires any car driven in winter to have tyres marked with the mountain and snowflake symbol and have 4mm minimum tread as a result (Sweden and Finland, 3mm). Many tyres, not just winters, now have second 'tread wear indicator' set at 4mm tread because of this. (see https://www.tyremen.co.uk/winter-dri...pean-tyre-laws )
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Last edited by Herts Hillhopper; 4 Weeks Ago at 23:26.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #23
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Re: Winter Tyres

The ways that winter tyres work on snow and ice to improve grip is the “sipes” which are the hundreds of wiggly cuts in the tread, these flex as the tyre makes contact with the surface and massively increase the contact are of the tyre and also creates hundreds of jagged edges to grip the ice or snow.

These sipes do not run as deep as the normal tread so once they wear away you loose that extra grip benefit. You can still have 4 - 5 mm of workable tread left but the sipes have worn away. Also as the tyre wears and the depth of the sipes decreases they become less able to flex and again loose there grip on snow and ice more quickly even though the tyre it’s self may still have plenty of perfectly good tread as you’d find on a normal tyre. So yes you might be able to get 30,000 miles out of a winter tyre but by that point it’s really not any better than a summer tyre. The reason you say in your post about other countries having differing legal limits for winter tyres is exactly because of the problem of the sipes wearing away much earlier than the rest of the tread.

My experience of winter tyres was that the nokians I had, did have the conventional wear indicators but also had the actual wear depth moulded into the tread of the tyre, so once it passed 7mm of tread that 7mm indicator would wear away and you would be able to read 6mm moulded into the tread of the tyre. As it wore past 6mm then you would see 5mm. To be honest it wouldn’t be a terrible idea if all tyres had this. https://www.nokiantyres.com/innovati...kian-wr-suv-3/

All winter tyres are also made from softer compounds, this is essential as the reason summer tyres lose their grip in cold weather is they become harder the colder they get. Winter tyres are already much softer and so any hardening caused by the cold is still offset by being softer in the first place.... this means the softer tyres compounds wear quicker, this isn’t an opinion it’s the material properties of the rubber used in winter tyres, like for like a winter tyre will always wear quicker.
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Last edited by AndyRKett; 4 Weeks Ago at 00:27.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #24
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Re: Winter Tyres

You are quite right Andy... once the sipes have gone (they stop at 3mm), the benefits they offer (of grip on ice/snow) are lost. But the tyre still offers winter 'grip' on other surfaces owing to the softer compound, so I'd argue they are still better in the winter than summer tyres worn to the same depth. (But yes, only if winters are cold enough. The past three have been around me)

The Nokain wear indicator is very clever - I'd seen that on their website - and yes, it would be good to see other tyres having that. Maybe Nokian hold a patent on it?

I'd have expected the winter tyres on my Panda to have had a much shorter life than summer tyres. But that turned out not to be the case. I think the combination of the Panda's light weight and my tendency to not 'throw it into corners' has a lot to do wit that. (And yes, one reason for not throwing it into corners is the softer tyres... This was the basis of an older thread in this forum: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/...5=#post4212054

Personally I don't believe its a 'con' from the tyre makers. For the 4x4, the CrossContact tyres, as well as being winter rated, are slightly more 'off road' biased with a tread that works in summer time muddy fields too. They have got me out of 'sticky situations' where other, rather more expensive vehicles have been well and truly marooned. Not sure how well the 'all season' tyres fitted to the Cross cope in that situation, but for me and my driving, the Continental CrossContact Winters are perfect.
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Last edited by Herts Hillhopper; 4 Weeks Ago at 15:20.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #25
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Re: Winter Tyres

Tend to agree with the above. Agree fully that snow performance might be reduced once those sipes are worn away, but the effect of the softer compound is still felt over summer tyres as soon as temperatures drop. Whilst ours will likely be changed at ~25k, this is still a good wear rate, no doubt helped by the light weight of the car. Thereís still ample wear on the rears in particular, but weíll soon be swapping to get those sipes back before winter.

For me, that extra security pulling out of junctions without scrabbling (and thatís without the additional grip offered by the 4x4 should it happen) , offered by the softer rubber, means the car just feels more secure. Compared to our other car equipped with summer tyres, the difference even on heavily worn Continental CrossContact tyres in cooler temperatures is tangible and well worth having. I am tempted to try Nokians, but either way Iíll be on M+S rated winters for our next set.
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