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Old 19-06-2019   #16
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

It's personal preference. As you know, I bought a Twinair and hated it but that's just me. I liked the torque/grunt but the rest didn't suit the way I drive at all.

You need to try one locally, even if it's in 500 locally. Cos that's what I should have done...
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Old 19-06-2019   #17
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Ive had 14 years in a 1.1 active panda:95k

But 6 years with a well specced punto TA:47k

Has meant the modern panda may well be a TA.. but without the frills.
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Last edited by varesecrazy; 19-06-2019 at 09:12.
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Old 19-06-2019   #18
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Quote Originally Posted by AB100 View Post
It's personal preference. As you know, I bought a Twinair and hated it but that's just me. I liked the torque/grunt but the rest didn't suit the way I drive at all.

You need to try one locally, even if it's in 500 locally. Cos that's what I should have done...
Good advice - I had difficulty finding a Fiat Twinair locally, but test-drove an Alfa with one...
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Old 19-06-2019   #19
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Quote Originally Posted by AB100 View Post
It's personal preference. As you know, I bought a Twinair and hated it but that's just me. I liked the torque/grunt but the rest didn't suit the way I drive at all.

You need to try one locally, even if it's in 500 locally. Cos that's what I should have done...
That's interesting - it may be that I've got used to any quirks and have forgotten them - though I also drive Mrs b_u's 60-reg 1.2 - but I'd say that I drive the TA just like any other petrol engine that's tuned for torque rather than top-end power.
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Old 19-06-2019   #20
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

The 1.2 Easy is the car I'm going for - playing it safe with what I know and love.


But the backup car, the 0.9 Lounge (for 6,999) has the TwinAir, maybe they'll let me take it for a test drive!


I have to admit, though different, the 1.2 in the Pop model I drove was still quick around the city traffic lights!
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Old 20-06-2019   #21
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post

1.2 FIRE
Pros
- Reliable - correct
- Easy to maintain - correct
- Smooth - correct, not as good as it was though
- Quieter - only at low speed/revs
- Four cylinders - yes
- Still produced (sign of superiority?) - sure, it's a decent engine

Cons
- Old - yes
- Slower - yes, frustratingly so at times
- Has a flat spot - i hadn't noticed
- Less powerful (69hp) - yes


TwinAir Engine
Pros
- Faster - by a mile compared to the 1.2
- Newer technology - yes
- Sounds great - yes

Cons
- Always being hammered - sounds like it, but it's not bothered.
- Noisy! - only if you thrash it between traffic lights and round town.
- Worse fuel consumption - if you hammer it, but the newer 1.2 arguably needs more hammering.
- Discontinued - only in 'regular' Panda's - still available to buy new in the 4x4 and Fiat 500.
- Can't hack cruising at 70mph as well (?) - COMPLETELY wrong, it laps it up. Gets eerily quiet too, all you can hear is the road noise, unlike the 1.2 which is booming away under the bonnet.
- More complex to fix with its turbo system - true, though it seems reliable so far.
- Reduced longevity of less cylinders / more power throughput - possibly, but there's been few horror stories and it's been available since 2011 in the Fiat 500.

Am I about right or missing something here?

You need to take one for a drive on the open road. My Parents had a 500 TwinAir from new for over 3 years and 30,000 miles and it was an absolute riot. It wasn't as quiet as the 1.2 around town, but I found it much easier to drive without the annoying surging revs that the 1.2 does unless you disconnect the clutch switch, which you shouldn't have to. On the open road it showed up cars of twice or three times the size though. Would sit at 70mph happily with power in reserve and because you don't have to keep changing down on an incline, the fuel economy never seemed worse than a 1.2 either.

You're probably (and I can't blame you) comparing the TwinAir to the 1.2 fitted to your current Panda. They were a gem of an engine. Unfortunately along the years of tightening emissions etc, Fiat has fiddled with the 1.2, added VVT and no doubt other bits and pieces and as such the 1.2 feels somewhat strained compared to what it once did. I loved the 1.2 I had in a Mk1 Punto and would buy a car with that engine in a heartbeat, but given the choice between todays 1.2 or a TwinAir, it'd be the TwinAir without any hesitation.
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Old 20-06-2019   #22
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Quote Originally Posted by babbo_umbro View Post
That's interesting - it may be that I've got used to any quirks and have forgotten them - though I also drive Mrs b_u's 60-reg 1.2 - but I'd say that I drive the TA just like any other petrol engine that's tuned for torque rather than top-end power.
The 1.2 is more suitable for the lazy driver. The serial gear-skipper and gear-hanger. The Twin-air, like diesels doesn't do that too well. For me, it just wasn't pleasant at all. No regrets getting the 1.2 again.

Ironically, knowing the distaste for VW on here, I did recently drive a 60bhp SEAT Mii, the prettier triplet of the Slovenian minis and I loved the smoothness and quietness of the 1.0 triple. Very flexible and not unhappy with me dragging it round in 5th at 900rpm. The noise when it's revving is even better. Like a muted V6 Capri! So, if FIAT does drop the Firefly into something small, I'll be happy.
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Old 25-06-2019   #23
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Bought new wase 4x4 twinair, 90hp. Traded panda twinair easy i owned for 6years. 40k town miles with only disc and pads selector oil seal changed.

Best small car i owned. We have owned panda 1.2, 100hp, 500 1.2.

The wase will keep up with the 100 hp which was thirsty!!
The 1.2 500 is difficult to master, especially at busy roundabouts.
Not tried the wase in snow yet, we live near the Peak District. Will keep you informed.
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Old 25-06-2019   #24
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Quote Originally Posted by adnapTA View Post
.......
The wase will keep up with the 100 hp which was thirsty!!....
Quite believe it in a straight line - my 4x4 TA is within a whisker of my previous 100HP - but the 100HP was so quick round corners - fastest I've ever been on roundabouts.
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Old 25-06-2019   #25
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Thanks everyone for all the info . I look forward to doing a lot more with my 4x4 TA.
For all/any of you motorcyclists out there I have just returned from thrashing my Egli-Vincent round the Montlhery banked track in France, in a "Tribute Parade" to the late Patrick Godet, well known Egli builder and Vincent rebuilder. Only problems were, it was a "parade" and the pace car was too slow, we did not get enough laps, and it was about 35 degrees C waiting for the "off". But would not have missed it for anything, even if I've got a bit of an oil leak now!
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Old 26-06-2019   #26
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Quote Originally Posted by Motorcyclist Colin View Post
...even if I've got a bit of an oil leak now!
And how's the bike?
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Old 26-06-2019   #27
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Hi Babbo
The bike's never incontinent, just me!
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Old 26-06-2019   #28
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

875cc TwinAir Turbo.
Great engine could do with some more power though.
Like the TA 105 version.
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Old 27-06-2019   #29
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Re: Arguments for and against the TwinAir

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
875cc TwinAir Turbo.
Great engine could do with some more power though.
Like the TA 105 version.
The TA is definitely an aquired taste, but I like it its easy to drive and bounds up hills like a much larger engine. MY new one seems to have even more oomph than the last one.

The way the things spin up to the red line is uncanny, as is the total lack of stressed sounds as it does this. If they could beef it up more it would be a riot. I am happy with the level of power though as any more does put your license at even more risk. I have towed trailer loads of sand cement and logs that are probably more than it should do, and it makes little difference to the way it wizzes along. It takes a while to adapt to its nature, as does driving a diesel engine, but once you get it its pretty impressive. I suspect the 4x4 would tow a ligght caravan with ease. I us eour to pull and push our van around at home, it does it very easily with the low first gear.

Its a shame Fiat don't repeat the Panda 100 in some way I would be there quite quickly, especially if they adjusted the ride a bit to soak up at least some bumps.
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