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Old 1 Week Ago   #1
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85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Well I have a Panda Waze 4x4 which is advertised as having 90hp oin the Fiat Web site.

On my V% I have a 62kw car and on my extended warranty paperwork I have a 85hp car

On the road it feels quite good! Just as well really as 62kw equates to 83.4 hp

Working out that if I value the car in terms of HP it would appear that I am owed 568 refund on the basis that my car does not have the power output I paid for.....

Fiat are at this moment trying to turn on their abacus to work out what I actually have, but the system is not working.

I have offered to go sit down with them and correct some of the stuff and nonsense on their website FOC. On the my Fiat site the details of my car are displayed..... it even states it has the "q tronic" paddles that I insisted were to be fitted as a no cost option.

Does anyone on here want to come too if they say yes to some fact straightening on their specification pages?

Does anyone know what the power of their twin air engine actually is or should be??

Fascinated to find out if I am the only one that this irritates.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #2
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Fiat have always advertised the TA as being 85bhp, except in the 'real' Cross 4x4, where it has always been shown as being 90bhp.

Similarly, where the older 4x4 MJ was shown to be 75bhp, that was 80 in the Cross -- part of the 'differentiation' to make the Cross 'special'. The very last of the MJs (4x4 or Cross) were all 95bhp.

The Waze 4x4 seems to be based more on the spec of the Panda 4x4 'Wild' sold in other parts of Europe (no 'eco leather' or other bits of trim, steel wheels etc), but with the front and rear bumpers of the Cross version -- a bit of a 'parts bin hybrid'. On that basis I woudl expect the 85bhp engine. We know the website is wrong (often showing non-UK specifications), but the price list specs are correct - what does/did that say?

If you press the little 'i' button next to the engine when you configure a Waze 4x4 it actually shows 90bhp but 62.5kW (one or the other of which can't be right, as 90bhp=67-ish kw)

By the way, my registration papers for my (non Cross) 4x4 MJ show it as a 'Panda Cross Multijet 4x4', which is not right either, and 70kW power (which is 93.8bhp)... so don't take it that the V5 is 'more correct' than Fiat, as it may not be!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #3
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

@Herts Hillhopper I'd suspect the MJ is 95ps, so just under 94bhp. @The Panda Nut if the new car feels quicker it probably is. Suspect it's 90ps so 88bhp. The TA 85 has been described as 84bhp (just under) so suspect that's ps too.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #4
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by Al D View Post
@Herts Hillhopper I'd suspect the MJ is 95ps, so just under 94bhp. @The Panda Nut if the new car feels quicker it probably is. Suspect it's 90ps so 88bhp. The TA 85 has been described as 84bhp (just under) so suspect that's ps too.
Yes I think its probably the 88 "90" version. Fiat have been asked to confirm its power output formally. I have again offered to help sort out the web site FOC. I have also said that a little bit more honesty in the quoted figures would not go a miss 85bhp motor is actually 83hp. I just want the correct figure on the v5 I don't want arguments on this at resale or insurance time!

The Lady at Fiat was very nice and said she will find out and let me know then I can get the v5 changed if necessary, which I suspect it will be.

Pandatonio sold yesterday so Desira have all their money back.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #5
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Can anyone with a 90Hp twin air please tell me what kW rating is stated on p2 pf the v5 please. Mine says 62 which I believe is a mistake I htink it should be 66. Thanks
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

@gar074 your man.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #7
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Quote Originally Posted by The Panda Nut View Post
Can anyone with a 90Hp twin air please tell me what kW rating is stated on p2 pf the v5 please. Mine says 62 which I believe is a mistake I htink it should be 66. Thanks
Mine says 62.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #8
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Fiat not told DVLA they don't put the TA 85 engine in anymore?!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #9
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by Al D View Post
@gar074 your man.
Sorry, can't help - the documentation's at home, but I'm in Japan at the moment.
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by gar074 View Post
Sorry, can't help - the documentation's at home, but I'm in Japan at the moment.
Kon'nichiwa.Igirisu ni modotta toki. Arigato.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #11
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

My Jan 2017 Twin air 4X4 (875cc) has 62KW on V5 and model shown as Panda Twinair 4X4 with 4 seats.
Engine number: 0400996
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Old 1 Week Ago   #12
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by BopBopBop View Post
My Jan 2017 Twin air 4X4 (875cc) has 62KW on V5 and model shown as Panda Twinair 4X4 with 4 seats.
Engine number: 0400996
Well well so 62 it is then. Thats 85Hp and not 90! 4.6% = 586 over charge if just based on the engine. The 90hp is 66kW so either there is a blunder of the advertising is indicating that your getting something your not.

I am waiting for Fiat Customer Services to investigate and explain. Maybe there is some other reason for the quoted figure, but I was very clear that I was expecting a 90Hp motor, But the specs also indicated 185 section tyres and according to some of the dealers web sites 5 seats amongst other things.

The lack of clarity is not very good at best

Thanks for all the responses, I hope this can be cleared up before too long. I think there may be a computer error here unless the quoted figore is something to do with power at the wheels.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #13
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Well it seems they do, so I want my CO2 figure corrected, and the ABI need to know too before they stick the waze with a group 10 insurance tag. These things do actually matter.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #14
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Finally managed to log in to My Fiat and indeed on there Fiat have populated the details of my car. It has the q-tronic paddles too...... Yes honestly thats what it says. It also clearly states 90HP so I think the logbook is wrong. Now the question is whats to be done. At sale time, a few years down the road, according to all the paperwork I have an 85HP car, so I want lower C02 and lower insurance and a refund to account for the lower power / mis-description (586 by my calculation) or do we get the logbook V5 corrected. Or do we go back and raise hell and reject the car on the grounds its not what we contracted to buy. It is going to be interesting to see what the response from Fiat is on the V5 power figure. I will let you know in due course if I get any clarification. A few cars back I had the wrong VIN on the V5 and that was all resolved peacefully so here is hoping.
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Last edited by The Panda Nut; 1 Week Ago at 22:57.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #15
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by The Panda Nut View Post
Finally managed to log in to My Fiat and indeed on there Fiat have populated the details of my car. It has the q-tronic paddles too...... Yes honestly thats what it says. It also clearly states 90HP so I think the logbook is wrong. Now the question is whats to be done. At sale time, a few years down the road, according to all the paperwork I have an 85HP car, so I want lower C02 and lower insurance and a refund to account for the lower power / mis-description (586 by my calculation) or do we get the logbook V5 corrected. Or do we go back and raise hell and reject the car on the grounds its not what we contracted to buy. It is going to be interesting to see what the response from Fiat is on the V5 power figure. I will let you know in due course if I get any clarification. A few cars back I had the wrong VIN on the V5 and that was all resolved peacefully so here is hoping.
For what it is worth: I really suspect it will make no difference either to the insurance, or to the selling of the car later on... likely that most/every Waze 4x4 TA is 'wrong' but who can tell, and how? No other country in Europe now gets a Panda with the TA engine at all, and I suspect they are clearing stocks. And although the V5 may say 62kW, that's only based on data supplied to them by Fiat - so it may well be wrong, and may be higher... how would/could you tell?
Mine, where it says I have a different model on the V5 (it says mine's a Panda Cross, not the 'plain' 4x4 that it actually is) may be worth having corrected... and again is from data supplied to DVLA by Fiat... but I'm in no rush to do that. For now, I am content to just enjoy my car for what it is: the best little 4x4 out there!
As to 'My Fiat', that is only transferred into the website from the purchase order details - so will match that, by definition, even if wrong. One of the Mopar sites, if i put in my VIN number, says may car is orange. Its green.
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