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Old 09-06-2019   #16
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

@The Panda Nut book a session on a rolling road. That'll tell you how much power it has.
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Old 09-06-2019   #17
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by Al D View Post
@The Panda Nut book a session on a rolling road. That'll tell you how much power it has.
Thats exactly what I am intending to do. I think its just the wrong power quoted by Fiat to DVLA but I want it corrected or some money back as I ordered on the basis of 90hp not 85. I am going to see what Fiat have to say first though. I hope it can be resolved.

The bad information Fiat publish is frankly astonishing. I am going to write to the ASA and complain about the misinformation if I have been stitched up with with less than I paid for.

The V5 says its 62kW not the 66 it should be and clearly other people logbooks are the same. Its not 90HP anyway its only just 87 so the adverts are misleading anyway. At best this is not good customer service.
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Last edited by The Panda Nut; 09-06-2019 at 22:27.
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Old 09-06-2019   #18
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by The Panda Nut View Post
Thats exactly what I am intending to do. I think its just the wrong power quoted by Fiat to DVLA but I want it corrected or some money back as I ordered on the basis of 90hp not 85. I am going to see what Fiat have to say first though. I hope it can be resolved.

The bad information Fiat publish is frankly astonishing. I am going to write to the ASA and complain about the misinformation if I have been stitched up with with less than I paid for.

The V5 says its 62kW not the 66 it should be and clearly other people logbooks are the same. Its not 90HP anyway its only just 87 so the adverts are misleading anyway. At best this is not good customer service.
Just bear in mind that the 4x4 system requires all four wheel to turn at the same time, so a dyno will need to allow for this - otherwise serious damage likely.
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Old 09-06-2019   #19
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

You may well find the answer is printed in the boot of the car. On the VIN plate (inside the right hand side of the boot under the mat), it identifies the engine type on the 8th row down:

If it says 312A2000 then it is the 85PS/62.5kW motor
If it says 312A7000, then it is the more powerful 90PS/66.2kW version.
Curiously, in both cases, the torque is quoted as being the same 145Nm

(as described in the owner's handbook - in my case on page 153. It also shows it to be 'EEC HP' - or PS – not UK HP)
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Last edited by Herts Hillhopper; 09-06-2019 at 23:15.
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Old 11-06-2019   #20
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by Herts Hillhopper View Post
For what it is worth: I really suspect it will make no difference either to the insurance, or to the selling of the car later on... likely that most/every Waze 4x4 TA is 'wrong' but who can tell, and how? No other country in Europe now gets a Panda with the TA engine at all, and I suspect they are clearing stocks. And although the V5 may say 62kW, that's only based on data supplied to them by Fiat - so it may well be wrong, and may be higher... how would/could you tell?
Mine, where it says I have a different model on the V5 (it says mine's a Panda Cross, not the 'plain' 4x4 that it actually is) may be worth having corrected... and again is from data supplied to DVLA by Fiat... but I'm in no rush to do that. For now, I am content to just enjoy my car for what it is: the best little 4x4 out there!
As to 'My Fiat', that is only transferred into the website from the purchase order details - so will match that, by definition, even if wrong. One of the Mopar sites, if i put in my VIN number, says may car is orange. Its green.
Ah but when it rusts it will have orange patches! .... and I hope he doesnt hear you calling him plain, it might be offended and come out in spots! I will eventually get the V5 corrected as a matter of principle. Its time Fiat got their information system together, I am sure some people would be put off by such confusion. Personally I think the TA is very well suited to the car and would be fine off road too so European s loose out. They probably wouldn't put up with the poor fuel consumption and high emissions over there. I am still very pleased with Noop apart from the summer tyres. I suppose the extra m's per g far outweigh the few times I will need extra grip. Even my youngest has decided there is something she cant identify that makes her enjoy her Panda more than she expected to. The problem is she has tried the TA and has her eyes on it! She likes the big step up in power from the little 1.2
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Old 11-06-2019   #21
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

For what it is worth: my TA Cross was delivered in December, as being a 90hp car. Just checked car documents: listed as 62,5kW, and not 66kW...

I'll have a look at the VIN plate tomorrow in daylight, and have a word with the garage
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Old 12-06-2019   #22
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by The Panda Nut View Post
Ah but when it rusts it will have orange patches! .... and I hope he doesnt hear you calling him plain, it might be offended and come out in spots! I will eventually get the V5 corrected as a matter of principle. Its time Fiat got their information system together, I am sure some people would be put off by such confusion. Personally I think the TA is very well suited to the car and would be fine off road too so European s loose out. They probably wouldn't put up with the poor fuel consumption and high emissions over there. I am still very pleased with Noop apart from the summer tyres. I suppose the extra m's per g far outweigh the few times I will need extra grip. Even my youngest has decided there is something she cant identify that makes her enjoy her Panda more than she expected to. The problem is she has tried the TA and has her eyes on it! She likes the big step up in power from the little 1.2
Hee hee... on looking again more closely, I see it says my car is green, but has 'orange interior fabrics'. But no, they are mostly green too...
Did you take a look at the VIN plate to see which engine you have?
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Old 12-11-2019   #23
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Hooray.

Fiat rang today (12 Nov 19)and told me reasonably unequivocally my car is indeed 90hp and the log book is wrong. It should indeed be 66kw not 62 as stated on the V5. This will be corrected. I have said I know this affects others. Once I have the corrected V5 I will let you know so you can also check and if necessary correct yours too.

I would have been surprised if it were not the case as it does go very well.

I must say the ladies in customer services Italy are all very charming. My thanks to them.
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Last edited by The Panda Nut; 12-11-2019 at 23:17.
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Old 12-11-2019   #24
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Of course, they could just be spinning you a line, to get you off their backs.

*apologies for the cynicism - I've probably been watching too much election coverage*
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Old 13-11-2019   #25
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by The Panda Nut View Post
Hooray.

Fiat rang today (12 Nov 19)and told me reasonably unequivocally my car is indeed 90hp and the log book is wrong. It should indeed be 66kw not 62 as stated on the V5. This will be corrected. I have said I know this affects others....
Now, I wonder if that means we will all get upwardly-revised insurance costs since the car is more powerful than the insurers had been told by DVLA (only joking... I hope).

It is not uncommon for the V5 to have not-quite-correct data - but so long as the VIN, engine number and Reg number agree, the rest is only there for information to aid identification, and to set the right taxation. As that is controlled now by CO not power, less of a concern.

Did you ever check the VIN plate details? What did yours say?
A reminder from an earlier post:
If it says 312A2000 then it is the 85PS/62.5kW motor
If it says 312A7000, then it is the more powerful 90PS/66.2kW version.

Pete
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Last edited by Herts Hillhopper; 13-11-2019 at 16:31.
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Old 13-11-2019   #26
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

My 2019 4x4 cross (which was very definitely sold as 90hp), has a V5 that states 62Kw and has a vin plate with 312A2000 on it. I'll be very interested to hear what others have and how this turns out.
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Old 13-11-2019   #27
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

That suggests that my list is out of date, as all the EU6 / WLTP tested twin air 4x4s are 90HP
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Old 14-11-2019   #28
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by Herts Hillhopper View Post
That suggests that my list is out of date, as all the EU6 / WLTP tested twin air 4x4s are 90HP
But how do we know that for sure?!!
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Old 19-11-2019   #29
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

The confusion continues.

From Fiat's UK Website today it refers to a Panda Cross 85HP. As far as I know all the Cross TA's have been 90HP.

https://www.fiat.co.uk/new-car-deals...anda_cross_4x4
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Old 19-11-2019   #30
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Re: 85 or 90 HP which have you got??

Quote Originally Posted by TinyTurbo View Post
The confusion continues.

From Fiat's UK Website today it refers to a Panda Cross 85HP. As far as I know all the Cross TA's have been 90HP.

https://www.fiat.co.uk/new-car-deals...anda_cross_4x4
Well this is the nub of the problem. it seems Waze are now either all 85hp or a choice. When I sell I shall expect a price premium for my 90hp engine.If I cannot have a 66kw logbook, I will have some financial redress. I would settle for 5/90ths of the cost. By my reckoning 576 plus some compensation for being misled inadvertently or otherwise . Around 750 would seem reasonable.

I am happy to negotiate sensibly.

I am going to write to the dealer soon requesting confirmation of engine number ranges with 90hp and also speak to trading standards. Hope is the car is as sold. Its a whopper of a blunder if its only 85!

One certainty is I am neither going to be ignored, mislead or hood-winked. After 25 years in enforcement I think I know how to make the point and interpret the laws involved.

I just want what I paid for or a fair and reasonable settlement.



t seems likely that there is an issue or the solution would have been quickly provided??
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