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Old 27-05-2019   #1
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Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

From BBC News:
"Fiat Chrysler has made a "transformative" merger proposal for French carmaker Renault, the Italian firm said on Monday [27 May]".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48420334

and FCA press release:
https://www.fcagroup.com/en-US/media...PE_RENAULT.pdf
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Old 27-05-2019   #2
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

That really would be bad news for UK production. Especially if we crash out of the EU with no deal in place.
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Old 27-05-2019   #3
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

I could see a ZOň based, Panda EV.
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Old 28-05-2019   #4
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by Schumi2001 View Post
That really would be bad news for UK production. Especially if we crash out of the EU with no deal in place.
Why? Not disputing just asking.
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Old 28-05-2019   #5
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by babbo_umbro View Post
Why? Not disputing just asking.
I wondered same thing: no Renault or Fiat models are made here in the UK, so should have no effect at all?
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Old 28-05-2019   #6
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Isn't Nissan (part of Renault) making cars in the UK?

gr J
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Old 28-05-2019   #7
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by A3jeroen View Post
Isn't Nissan (part of Renault) making cars in the UK?

gr J
Exactly.

Why would Renault / Nissan continue to manufacture in the UK when they can manufacture tariff and customs barrier free within existing EU factories?

We've already seen Honda plan to close Swindon on the back of a tariff free deal between Japan and the EU and Sunderland has failed to land the next generation Nissan CashCow. This is probably the end of Nissan production in the UK.
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Old 28-05-2019   #8
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by Schumi2001 View Post
Exactly.

Why would Renault / Nissan continue to manufacture in the UK when they can manufacture tariff and customs barrier free within existing EU factories?

We've already seen Honda plan to close Swindon on the back of a tariff free deal between Japan and the EU and Sunderland has failed to land the next generation Nissan CashCow. This is probably the end of Nissan production in the UK.
Ah, OK, I see. However, Nissan only owns 15% of Renault... so, would end up with 'just' 7.5% of the newly merged business (according to the BBC story).
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Last edited by Herts Hillhopper; 28-05-2019 at 18:05.
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Old 28-05-2019   #9
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

But Renault own 43.4% of Nissan... and have full voting rights on the board, so it's safe to say they have a significant and controlling interest!
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Old 28-05-2019   #10
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

And it gets more complicated because the French government has a 15% stake in Renault.
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Old 29-05-2019   #11
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

I can also see a Nissan Leaf based Panda EV.
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Old 31-05-2019   #12
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
I can also see a Nissan Leaf based Panda EV.
Unfortunately I can't.

The idea of the merger is to hit targets for cleaner vehicles, they need to hit an average of 95g CO2 per kilometer for their whole fleet by 2021.
Fiat are a long way behind making this and will face billions of euros fines when they fail.
These fines are on a sliding scale, so the closer to 95g you get, the lower the fine.

The answer they've come up with is to merge companies.
If a car company merges with another to form a new company, the "clean" models the other company sell now count against all the products in the merged companies line ups.

Fiat teamed up Tesla so it can "add" all their vehicles to the company's fleet, but you will never see a Tesla with a Fiat badge on it. The owning companies merge not the brands.

Fiat, Abarth, Renault, Dacia, Tesla, Jeep, Chrysler etc will be brands all under one company and as they have already stated they have no plans to close factories, it's a cert Renault will continue to sell the Zoe and Flatulence, Nissan the Leaf and Fiat the petrol Panda for a good while yet.

In time they might co develop new technology that all the brands might use, but that's a long way off, the plan at the moment it to sell as many vehicles as possible from a fleet with an average CO2 close to 95g per km as possible for least cost/effort.

But, if the Panda was likely to change, you'd imagine it's utilitarian style and budget status might lend it's self more to the Dacia Sandero than anything else.
The Sandero ranges from 97g to 123g of CO2
The Panda 118g to 129g of CO2.
You can see which model might nudge the CO2 level up by couple of bill fine!
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Last edited by Goudrons; 31-05-2019 at 08:20.
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Old 31-05-2019   #13
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post
Unfortunately I can't.

The idea of the merger is to hit targets for cleaner vehicles, they need to hit an average of 95g CO2 per kilometer for their whole fleet by 2021.
Fiat are a long way behind making this and will face billions of euros fines when they fail.
These fines are on a sliding scale, so the closer to 95g you get, the lower the fine.

The answer they've come up with is to merge companies.
If a car company merges with another to form a new company, the "clean" models the other company sell now count against all the products in the merged companies line ups.

Fiat teamed up Tesla so it can "add" all their vehicles to the company's fleet, but you will never see a Tesla with a Fiat badge on it. The owning companies merge not the brands.

Fiat, Abarth, Renault, Dacia, Tesla, Jeep, Chrysler etc will be brands all under one company and as they have already stated they have no plans to close factories, it's a cert Renault will continue to sell the Zoe and Flatulence, Nissan the Leaf and Fiat the petrol Panda for a good while yet.

In time they might co develop new technology that all the brands might use, but that's a long way off, the plan at the moment it to sell as many vehicles as possible from a fleet with an average CO2 close to 95g per km as possible for least cost/effort.

But, if the Panda was likely to change, you'd imagine it's utilitarian style and budget status might lend it's self more to the Dacia Sandero than anything else.
The Sandero ranges from 97g to 123g of CO2
The Panda 118g to 129g of CO2.
You can see which model might nudge the CO2 level up by couple of bill fine!
Yes - I think you have hit the nail on the head there... and no change to anyone's model line ups (or where they are built) for a good few years at least.

Fiat have been 'caught out' by the new WLTP testing programme, which has shown the TwinAir to have much higher CO2 emissions than the 95g claimed under the 'old tests' -- and dropped the MJ completely from the Panda (where it was a good seller, especially in the 4x4s) and 500 (where it only accounted for 4% of the sales) because it too was 'dirtier' than previously claimed.

A few years back, Aston Martin made a 'badged' version of Toyota's (curious) IQ car - for exactly the same reason, so they could reduce their overall CO2 emissions levels.
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Last edited by Herts Hillhopper; 31-05-2019 at 17:46.
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Old 01-06-2019   #14
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post
Unfortunately I can't.

The idea of the merger is to hit targets for cleaner vehicles, ....

But, if the Panda was likely to change, you'd imagine it's utilitarian style and budget status might lend it's self more to the Dacia Sandero than anything else.
The Sandero ranges from 97g to 123g of CO2
The Panda 118g to 129g of CO2.
You can see which model might nudge the CO2 level up by couple of bill fine!
The FireFly engines can't be far off for the Panda and 500. They should be significantly better for C02
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Old 06-06-2019   #15
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

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