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Old 06-06-2019   #16
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by TinyTurbo View Post
The FireFly engines can't be far off for the Panda and 500. They should be significantly better for C02
Firefly will never come to the panda
It's going to be battery powered only when the new model comes out
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Old 06-06-2019   #17
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by chris3234 View Post
Firefly will never come to the panda
It's going to be battery powered only when the new model comes out
Seriously doubt this - the cento venti concept car led to rumours to this end but (as discussed in another thread) Fiat specifically knocked this on the head, placing the 120 up-market from the Panda. An all-electric Panda would be as much use as a chocolate teaspoon to the many basic - and very conservative - motorists in Italy who buy them by the hundreds of thousand - the Panda is practical rural transport, where it has always been in the market in out-of-city Italy. I can't believe the volume of sales would justify the development costs - there are still very numerous first-generation Pandas in everyday use, especially in 4x4 form, and I suspect Panda owners would just keep hold of their existing cars.
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Old 06-06-2019   #18
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Apparently FCA withdraw the merge offer.
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Old 06-06-2019   #19
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
Apparently FCA withdraw the merge offer.
Today's (Thursday 6 June) La Repubblica - which is probably the most reliable Italian daily - suggests that the deal is still on but blames the French government - which is the biggest shareholder in Renault - for being unable to make up its mind. They suggest inter-governmental conversations have succeeded in preventing the delay the French were asking for - to do with insisting that Renault's head office remains in Paris and looking for job guarantees (in an industry destroying itself through over-capacity!). When politicians become involved in industry - specially the automotive industry - it's a recipe for disaster.
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Old 06-06-2019   #20
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by babbo_umbro View Post
Today's (Thursday 6 June) La Repubblica - which is probably the most reliable Italian daily - suggests that the deal is still on but blames the French government - which is the biggest shareholder in Renault - for being unable to make up its mind. They suggest inter-governmental conversations have succeeded in preventing the delay the French were asking for - to do with insisting that Renault's head office remains in Paris and looking for job guarantees (in an industry destroying itself through over-capacity!). When politicians become involved in industry - specially the automotive industry - it's a recipe for disaster.
Nailed it. When you add into the mix the widely-reported antagonism between the key players in France and Italy, this 'deal' was doomed to fail.
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Old 15-06-2019   #21
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by Schumi2001 View Post
Exactly.

Why would Renault / Nissan continue to manufacture in the UK when they can manufacture tariff and customs barrier free within existing EU factories?

We've already seen Honda plan to close Swindon on the back of a tariff free deal between Japan and the EU and Sunderland has failed to land the next generation Nissan CashCow. This is probably the end of Nissan production in the UK.
Honda specifically said it had no link to Brexit.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1Q80RZ
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Old 15-06-2019   #22
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

They can say what they like, doesn't mean it wasn't part of the decision process.

I'm inclined to believe they wouldn't want to tell their workers 'well, you voted for this clusterfeck, so only have yourselves to blame' - especially whilst they still need them until the plant closes.

I'm sure it's absolutely no coincidence at all that they're closing a factory that's likely to end up on WTO terms in favour of manufacturing in Japan, where they just so happen to have signed a tapering duty rate for exporting cars to the EU... meaning they'll be at zero duty in a few years.

This is just the beginning, with BJ looking like he'll be our next PM and his plans for a WTO Brexit, there are a lot more such closures to come.
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Old 15-06-2019   #23
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by Schumi2001 View Post
This is just the beginning, with BJ looking like he'll be our next PM and his plans for a WTO Brexit, there are a lot more such closures to come.
It'll be good to know we are in full control, as we slide into the abyss.
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Old 15-06-2019   #24
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
It'll be good to know we are in full control, as we slide into the abyss.
Anyone else watching Years and Years on BBC1?

Whist some of it is a little far fetched - there are some horrible similarities with the path we're taking right now.
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Old 15-06-2019   #25
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Quote Originally Posted by Schumi2001 View Post
They can say what they like, doesn't mean it wasn't part of the decision process.

I'm inclined to believe they wouldn't want to tell their workers 'well, you voted for this clusterfeck, so only have yourselves to blame' - especially whilst they still need them until the plant closes.

I'm sure it's absolutely no coincidence at all that they're closing a factory that's likely to end up on WTO terms in favour of manufacturing in Japan, where they just so happen to have signed a tapering duty rate for exporting cars to the EU... meaning they'll be at zero duty in a few years.

This is just the beginning, with BJ looking like he'll be our next PM and his plans for a WTO Brexit, there are a lot more such closures to come.
I think a Japanese company wanting to move as much production back to Japan seems natural enough to me - assuming theyíve found a way to do it... which they seem to have.

You have to laugh at some of the businesses today blaming Brexit.

A company like Honda, for a start, unlike our poor media situation in the UK, would wait until Brexit has actually happened ... because so far... nothing has. So it makes no difference whatsoever.

Anybody crying or buying in or participating into scaremongering has my pity.

Take it on face value when it comes. Maybe then blame it for being bad.

Trust me, we arenít staying in Europe. And trust me, we arenít going to be the only big name in the EU to have left in a decades time. Once weíre out and we still wake up the next day... other countries will have a framework to go by. You think their populations donít have a voice in them also wanting out for their own reasons? ...France sure does. Just watch.
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Old 16-06-2019   #26
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

I see you're in NI.

I think you're in for a really, huge, massive shock and re-alignment of your views on the EU over coming years.

It's without doubt the most short sighted, stupid and success limiting thing our population have ever supported. And all because some people are a little bit racist, xenophobic and easily led by the likes of Farage and BJ with their opinions and principles based on nothing more than their own personal ego-trip.

I actually think the opposite of your opinion - our slide into turmoil and economic crisis will only serve to show the value of being part of a trading organisation.
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Old 16-06-2019   #27
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Quote Originally Posted by Schumi2001 View Post
I see you're in NI.

I think you're in for a really, huge, massive shock and re-alignment of your views on the EU over coming years.

It's without doubt the most short sighted, stupid and success limiting thing our population have ever supported. And all because some people are a little bit racist, xenophobic and easily led by the likes of Farage and BJ with their opinions and principles based on nothing more than their own personal ego-trip.

I actually think the opposite of your opinion - our slide into turmoil and economic crisis will only serve to show the value of being part of a trading organisation.
There are as many valid reasons for wanting out as there are for wanting to be in it. Nothing is black and white. I can respect the fact that you want to stay in the EU without accusing you of being racist etc.

But you have to accept that the country voted out. Thatís democracy. If people didnít do their homework thatís not a reason to change the result.

Brexit can be seen as a bad thing, but really itís an opportunity. Some will cry about it. Others will use it as an opportunity to change rules and laws in their favour.

If we remain Iíd consider leaving the UK for Australia or Canada. Same if the terrorists in NI use it as an excuse to blow our country up. Im sick of cry babies who donít get their own way scaremongering the population here. Accusing them of being racist ... is that the best you/they can do? Then youíre missing real intellectual and economic discussion that this situation really could do with. Maybe then weíd be getting somewhere.
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Old 16-06-2019   #28
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

We didn't vote out, though.

Two-thirds of the population voted to remain or were ambivalent. That just isn't good enough - especially when the third who did vote out were told bare-faced lies (The red bus? - total fiction... and, now BJ looks like he has grabbed control, is going to use any money we do gain to fund tax cuts for the middle classes - with the threshold for 40% tax moving to match MP salaries... you really couldn't make this up!).

BJ doesn't even believe in leaving himself - it's just a political move to grab power.

Your opinion is fairly typical, though - 'I'll leave for Australia or Canada' - one is a backwards nation of misogynists and racists, whilst the other appears outwardly to be a bit 'olde England'. Perfect places for a Brexit supporter to run to. (Canada has pretty strict policies on who they let in, too - so don't hold your breath... if they have any sense, they'll ask if you've ever supported a political party of xenophobes and racists and deny a visa!)
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Old 16-06-2019   #29
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
But you have to accept that the country voted out. Thatís democracy. If people didnít do their homework thatís not a reason to change the result.
I heard a phrase on the radio a week or so ago, "..there was no manifesto..".
Summed it up for me.

A vote was held, the choices being,
1. Keep what you have.
2. Not.

We really had no idea what 'out' might look like, or the timescale to achieve it, or pain levels, or perceived benefits. Just a few bullet points.

It seems to me incredible that half the population voted just to not have what we've got already, without knowing what the alternative was, just each person had an idea in their head, which will have included many variations.
Before a vote, the exiteers should have been tasked with doing the provisional negotiations, and presenting a full case of what, how, cost, benefits, etc.

Like a game show, take the money or open the box.

Now we have some idea of what out looks like, many exiteers are unhappy with the proposed deal, but don't have an alternative, as the EU will decide what they are willing to give. You can't have member benefits if you aren't in the club.

Sometime soon we will have an answer. And at least half the population will be unhappy about it, that's democracy.
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Old 17-06-2019   #30
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Re: Fiat make bid to merge with Renault

Brexit - scaremongers versus common sense - on both sides of what has long since ceased to be a sensible discussion. I voted for a common market back in the seventies - I did not vote for "ever-closer political union" and never will.
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