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Old 25-04-2019   #31
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

PS. I would have been putting some anti-seize on that small bottom retaining pin too.

Have to say though I'm mystified as to why he seems to be throwing money away when his existing discs and pads look to have many thousands of miles left in them?
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Last edited by Pugglt Auld Jock; 25-04-2019 at 17:15.
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Old 28-04-2019   #32
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Quote Originally Posted by Il Karro View Post
...Removed the lug nuts and the wheel was stuck, used a mallet to thump wheel at alternate sides and it eventually came off...
This is why, when I get a new car with alloy wheels, I take the wheels off almost as soon as I get it, and apply a thin smear of anti-seize grease to the face of the hub that the wheel is in contact with: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/...ml#post4352105

Well worth doing, especially those of you with recent new cars with a spare wheel. Nothing worse than having spec'd the spare tyre but not being able to use it on a cold, wet wtinter's night when you get your first puncture, because you can't get the old wheel off.
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Old 30-04-2019   #33
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Yes I totally agree preparation is everything. Been kinda busy so car on hold at the moment, although ordered some copper grease on Puggit Auld Jock's recommendation.

Hopefully get back on track this week and organise it's service. Will keep you all updated.

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Old 30-04-2019   #34
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Where you see him using the wire brush in his power drill to clean up the hub you need to know that it's actually the flat surface (where the 4 wheel nut holes are) that needs to be super clean. Any grit or serious rust left here, so it gets trapped under the new disc, will make the disc wobble and give you grabbing brakes.
I buy Car Mechanics magazine every month and in the current edition, on page 25 "Tales from the workshop" there is a wee feature on a Vauxhall Zafira which had, after a visit to a "fast fit" workshop where it's discs and pads were replaced, developed exactly this problem. When the brakes were stripped it was found that the hubs had not been cleaned before the new components were fitted so the discs were "wobbling" slightly. Not a lot but enough to cause a judder under braking. Irregular wear to the new discs over the few months of use before it was taken to the writer's garage meant that even after cleaning the hubs it was found the discs were not reusable so new discs and pads had to be fitted! They don't say if the customer tried to recover costs from the "fast fitters" but I suspect he/she won't be returning.

Looking at that video again I just realized he seems to be working on a dirt floor. Not a good idea. Unstable for the jack and greatly reduced grip for braked/chocked wheels which increases the chances of the vehicle moving and falling off the jack! Actually I've been trying to decide exactly how he's got the vehicle supported? If you look closely at that "suicide" jack it doesn't seem to be quite in contact with the sill? is the car resting on that wheel under the sill a little further back? maybe not? So what is holding it up?
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Old 01-05-2019   #35
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Must be magic!

gr J
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Old 01-05-2019   #36
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Here is my update for today, car got serviced today, looking for some feedback on the price and any comments.

Went to a local garage that my cousin's son takes his Fiat 500 too. It is his pride and joy, he does a lot of work on the car himself but also uses this garage, so I figured if he trusts them I'll give them a try.

Stopped in at garage and chatted to guy, told him that last service was in 2017 with 1470 miles on the clock, and that I was looking for an interim service and the mileage was at 3700. Would also like my brakes checked, explained that I had looked at one of the rear brakes, and thought they looked okay but had a problem getting wheel off, probably due to the fact that car had been sitting.

Left the car with them and got a call a couple of hours later to inform me that the front brakes were badly pitted, corroded and needed replaced, told them to replace with Pagid ones. They also had problems with the oil sump and said the screw was quite loose when they removed it because the thread in the oil sump was stripped.

I informed them that there had been no signs of oil leaks on my garage floor and asked them if the screw had been over tightened previously or what had caused it. They couldn't really say but were going to try and re tap the thread and if that didn't work, it would be a new oil sump, that wouldn't arrive until Friday. Thought to myself I could manage if car was off the road a couple of days if need be, then they told me it was a relatively time consuming job to replace sump and the price tag of a new oem oil sump was hefty too.

So whilst I waited with dread on another phone call I contacted my local fiat garage and queried price of new oil sump, and labour charges to get it replaced here are the prices

oem oil sump 328.15
3 hours labour 315 +VAT
and of course replacement oil

after I picked myself off the floor and came round I anxiously waited on the phone call. The re tapping had worked and the thread was tight. The car could be collected. Not really sure if I 100% trust the re tapping but fingers crossed for now.

So I collected the car and paid the bill which can be seen below, so all in all it was a dramatic day for Pingu and myself, but the bill could have been a lot bigger. So have a look guys and tell me what you think.
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Old 02-05-2019   #37
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Oil filter bit pricey, I've bought myself and passed to mechanic (8). Last time I left him to it (only 13.50). The oil isn't the right stuff but better than the valve gear bathing in treacle. If you get the issue I have post oil change with misfire and limp home mode, don't take it back. Thrash it really hard in low gears, cured mine. Brakes could be lack of use. You still need air filter, pollen filter, spark plugs and another oil change at some point.

They're not fragile cars but need keeping on top of. Oil changes paramount because they're cheap compared to Uniair unit or a secondhand engine.

PS bill suggests they put 3 litres of oil in. Can hold another 0.2-0.5 litres. Don't put any more in if plan on having done again. Keep enjoying.
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Old 02-05-2019   #38
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

What other oil change do I need?
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Old 02-05-2019   #39
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

This is the official recommended oil (2 2 litre cans needed). Better to have near identical oil put in it. Unlikely could go wrong with what's in it in short term. But having near identical to below oil could save you a 4 figure bill. Just not worth risking am afraid.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Sele...oAAOSwiwZcGnBW
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Old 02-05-2019   #40
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Quote Originally Posted by Al D View Post
This is the official recommended oil (2 2 litre cans needed). Better to have near identical oil put in it. Unlikely could go wrong with what's in it in short term. But having near identical to below oil could save you a 4 figure bill. Just not worth risking am afraid.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Sele...oAAOSwiwZcGnBW
Is it worth while saying to the garage they used the wrong oil!

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Old 02-05-2019   #41
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Quote Originally Posted by Al D View Post
This is the official recommended oil (2 2 litre cans needed). Better to have near identical oil put in it. Unlikely could go wrong with what's in it in short term. But having near identical to below oil could save you a 4 figure bill. Just not worth risking am afraid.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Sele...oAAOSwiwZcGnBW
Is it important that I get the oil changed asap, I am a bit worried now.
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Old 02-05-2019   #42
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Quote Originally Posted by Il Karro View Post

Left the car with them and got a call a couple of hours later to inform me that the front brakes were badly pitted, corroded and needed replaced, told them to replace with Pagid ones. They also had problems with the oil sump and said the screw was quite loose when they removed it because the thread in the oil sump was stripped.

I informed them that there had been no signs of oil leaks on my garage floor and asked them if the screw had been over tightened previously or what had caused it. They couldn't really say but were going to try and re tap the thread and if that didn't work, it would be a new oil sump, that wouldn't arrive until Friday. Thought to myself I could manage if car was off the road a couple of days if need be, then they told me it was a relatively time consuming job to replace sump and the price tag of a new oem oil sump was hefty too.

So whilst I waited with dread on another phone call I contacted my local fiat garage and queried price of new oil sump, and labour charges to get it replaced here are the prices

oem oil sump 328.15
3 hours labour 315 +VAT
and of course replacement oil
First off, am I right you've got the twin air in this? If so:

Compared with what I would pay at my local factor (SRS Autoparts) or from Shop4parts The parts look expensive. Then again I nearly had a heart attack at the full retail charged on the parts for my Ibiza service by the main agent (to maintain warranty)! Out of warranty now so it'll be "Jock's motors" from here on.

I think the oil should be a 0w30? (Selenia Digitek pure energy recommended by S4p @ 17.89 plus Vat for 2 litres). So, at 5w30 you have an oil which is very slightly thicker when cold. I don't know what the API/ACEA spec should be - maybe C2 is acceptable? Anyway I believe the hydraulically actuated valve trains on these engines is very sensitive to the correct oil being used Maybe someone who knows more about the twin airs could advise?

Stripped out sump drain threads in ally sumps have long been a curse. I remember it being one of the first lectures I got when I started working on BMC stuff (Mini, 1100/1300, Maxi, Landcrab, etc etc which all had cast ally sumps) and it's still as big a curse today. Most of the specialists insist on a torque wrench being used to tighten them in an effort to prevent this happening. It's so prevalent that generic kits are now marketed which have sump plugs one size bigger with a special tap to remake the thread so the oversize plug can be used. For example these would probably do for a repair to the 14mm plug in my boy's old diesel Fabia:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/13-PCE-15mm...1814662&chn=ps

If you ever need a sump S4p are currently doing them for 149.82 plus Vat.

https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=s..._TwinAir_Sumps

You need to ask them if They simply cleaned the threads up by running an original size tap down them or did they retap the whole out and fit a larger sized repair plug? If all they did was run a tap through it you can probably look forward to a "proper" repair being needed the next time. In the mean time, if it's not leaking, DON'T TOUCH IT! because it may well leak if "fiddled" with.

There is the other option of drilling it out and fitting a helicoil type repair thread insert.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M14-x-1-2...frcectupt=true

So there are a few reasonably cheap options to explore before you need to splash out on a complete replacement sump - which is a relatively big job in comparison.
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Old 02-05-2019   #43
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Just spotted the Selenia is an ACEA C2 spec oil - so what you've got in yours is to the same spec but very slightly thicker SAE 5 as against SAE 0 when cold. I doubt if this will give any problems in our moderate climate but I am happy to defer to anyone with more knowledge of the twin air. I myself am very particular about lubricants and would always use the vehicle manufacturer specific product (not necessarily bought from the dealer though) or a product which exactly matches the vehicle manufacturer spec. For instance on my Ibiza/Skoda vehicles which have a factory recommended Castrol product I am happy to use a Quantum branded oil sold through their factoring organisation (TPS) which was made for them by Castrol and now by Fuchs.

I wouldn't be loosing any sleep over this Il Karro. I would check the oil level is between the marks on the dip stick though (Al D seemed to think it takes more oil than they charged you for in his post above).

Kind regards
Jock
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Old 02-05-2019   #44
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

The early Panda TA 85hp called for:
Selenia K P.E., SAE 5W-40 ACEA C3, Fiat Classification 9.55535-S2
This was changed for later (current) Panda TA 85hp to:
Selenia Digitek P.E., SAE 0W-30 ACEA C2, FIAT Classification 9.55535-GSI

Owners of older Panda TAs have not been advised that the oil spec has changed, and there seems to be some uncertainty whether the change was because
a) Fiat made a design change which necessitated the change in oil spec, so it doesn't apply to older engines, or
b) Fiat decided that 0W-30 would be a better choice (and reduce warranty issues), so it should apply to older engines.

I tried to clarify this with Fiat Customer Service, and sent them my VIN.
When they called back, the information which came up on their system did not give viscosity ratings, just wordy descriptions. I was off-balance when they called, and thought that nothing had been clarified, but afterwards I realised that they had said 'Digitek' in the description of the oil to suit my engine and this name only seems to apply to the SAE 0W-30.

One school of thought is that you must use what the handbook says, so that Fiat cannot brush aside any problems as being due to using the wrong oil (but when out of warranty, Fiat won't be liable anyway).
The other approach is that Fiat changed the oil to suit the engine, so early TA 85s should also change to the SAE 0W-30 oil.

The original Panda handbook called up the 5W-40 for the 85hp turbo engine and the 0W-30 for the 65hp non-turbo engine. This makes me think that the thicker 5W-40 was to protect the turbo, but that Fiat found that the 0W-30 was better for the TA engine (and turbos cost less than uni-air units).

I have now switched to Selenia Digitek P.E., SAE 0W-30 for my 62-plate TA 85hp.

To summarise the above, both oils have been specified for the TA 85hp, so it is unlikely that your current oil will cause any damage in the short-term, but it may not be the optimum long-term choice.
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Old 02-05-2019   #45
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Quote Originally Posted by chr1s View Post
The early Panda TA 85hp called for:
Selenia K P.E., SAE 5W-40 ACEA C3, Fiat Classification 9.55535-S2
This was changed for later (current) Panda TA 85hp to:
Selenia Digitek P.E., SAE 0W-30 ACEA C2, FIAT Classification 9.55535-GSI

Owners of older Panda TAs have not been advised that the oil spec has changed, and there seems to be some uncertainty whether the change was because
a) Fiat made a design change which necessitated the change in oil spec, so it doesn't apply to older engines, or
b) Fiat decided that 0W-30 would be a better choice (and reduce warranty issues), so it should apply to older engines.

I tried to clarify this with Fiat Customer Service, and sent them my VIN.
When they called back, the information which came up on their system did not give viscosity ratings, just wordy descriptions. I was off-balance when they called, and thought that nothing had been clarified, but afterwards I realised that they had said 'Digitek' in the description of the oil to suit my engine and this name only seems to apply to the SAE 0W-30.

One school of thought is that you must use what the handbook says, so that Fiat cannot brush aside any problems as being due to using the wrong oil (but when out of warranty, Fiat won't be liable anyway).
The other approach is that Fiat changed the oil to suit the engine, so early TA 85s should also change to the SAE 0W-30 oil.

The original Panda handbook called up the 5W-40 for the 85hp turbo engine and the 0W-30 for the 65hp non-turbo engine. This makes me think that the thicker 5W-40 was to protect the turbo, but that Fiat found that the 0W-30 was better for the TA engine (and turbos cost less than uni-air units).

I have now switched to Selenia Digitek P.E., SAE 0W-30 for my 62-plate TA 85hp.

To summarise the above, both oils have been specified for the TA 85hp, so it is unlikely that your current oil will cause any damage in the short-term, but it may not be the optimum long-term choice.
Hi Chris

thanks for the info and taking the time to reply, do you think it's worthwhile getting back in touch with the garage, should they have known what oil to use.

Thanks
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