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Old 20-04-2019   #16
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Puggit old Jock comes to mind.
Just got his PM. May be able to help. Waiting now on reply.
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Old 21-04-2019   #17
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Hi

Been reading up again on the brake noise and damper kit, and if the damper kit doesn't get fitted under warranty it's 200.

Could someone look at the attached file and tell me if these pads would do the trick seems much better value for a long term real engineering fix.
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File Type: pdf navi.pdf (70.0 KB, 6 views)
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Old 21-04-2019   #18
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Sorry to be a pain and ask so many questions, here is a link to the jack kit I was going to purchase

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-2010...T/113500977061

seems like the correct one would you all agree.

Finally a steel wheel for my spare

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alcar-ste...e/283443457071

Will hopefully manage to do a deal for the couple of continental tyres in the classifieds. One for the steel wheel for my spare and the other as a spare spare.
Like to be covered and prepared

Any comments, or recommendations much appreciated, but think i am on the right track.
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Old 21-04-2019   #19
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

You could always supply vehicle reg to steel wheel supplier to check okay. Car needs the slightly bigger jack so you're in the right direction with that. Maybe get correct spacesaver tyre size so at least fits in the wheel well. Jack will go in bag and velcro to side of the boot. Said bag will also hold locking wheel nut kit, better than glovebox or door pocket. Assume that was supplied with the car?!
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Old 21-04-2019   #20
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Yes got the locking wheel nut kit with car.
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Old 21-04-2019   #21
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Believe this seller been used by members on here. Little more than links you've posted but if someone can confirm it fits.....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-PAND...YAAOxygj5SetMM
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Old 22-04-2019   #22
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Just to keep people up to speed. Resulting from our PM's, turns out this person is based in West Lothian, Not far off equidistant Edinburgh/Glasgow (arguably a little closer to Edinburgh) so not exactly "round the corner" from me and they would also have to endure a fair bit of "city mileage" to reach me - don't know if they are comfortable with city driving? They've decided to try approaching a local garage and I've offered to give additional advice if they would want that. (perhaps once they've had a quote?). I wouldn't necessarily be against actually physically examining the car - maybe popping a couple of wheels off and "investigating caliper/pad/disc condition (actually I would really enjoy doing that) but it would have to fit in with our extensive childminding/school pickup etc duties so might be difficult to arrange. I can't think there would be anything especially difficult in sorting this out so would expect a competent local workshop will have a satisfactory outcome.

Good luck with it Il Karro and do keep us all informed as to how it goes won't you?

Stay safe everyone
Jock
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Old 23-04-2019   #23
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Here is an update people, decide today that i was taking the wheel off myself to have a look at the brakes. Already got a jack that I have used to change a flat before, but invested in a pair of axle stands too. There is a couple of reasons for the axle stands, so thought it was money well spent. I want to remove my alloys one by one and give them a good clean and i also want to clean and inspect the underside of the car.

Got the lug nuts loosened slightly then jacked up the car, could not get the axle stand in beside the jack there wasn't enough room, see pic 1 so where else can i put it .

Left the axle stand as high as it would go with about 5mm of clearance under the plastic cover which is over the sill, thought if the jack gave way then car would only drop onto axle stand, but didn't want to lower car onto axle stand because figured the plastic would break.

Removed the lug nuts and the wheel was stuck, used a mallet to thump wheel at alternate sides and it eventually came off. Took some pictures which i've posted and don't think the brakes look too bad, but wasn't prepared to linger with car only on jack.

So i cleaned the wheel surface and hub surface with scotchbrite then used a damp cloth with a drop of alcohol on it to wipe surface, then put a small amount of oil on a cloth and wiped surfaces with that, to stop it from sticking maybe i did the wrong thing but these were the only things I had at hand. Fitted wheel on, tightened lug nuts, removed axle stand, then lowered jack and tightened nuts.

Took the car round the block to make sure wheel didn't fall off, any tips or ideas or tools you think i should have please comment.

Tell me what you think of the brakes from the pictures. If i get the axle stands sorted out going to remove the wheels at home to loosen all of them.

So if nothing else today, this post might make you chuckle.
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Old 23-04-2019   #24
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

As believe you got car from a car supermarket. I would suspect their claims they do a proper inspection a lie if you struggled to get wheel off. Mine been off several times in the year owned (front discs and pads pre delivery, wheel balancing, brake cleaning, 4 tyres and front suspension arms). If your tyres low tread and front pads had it you'll know when you try braking hard from 30mph. Normally car literally stops on it's nose. Otherwise it'll lock up. Know this as I've done it.
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Old 23-04-2019   #25
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

No it was a private buy, the last service was done 09/03/17 with 1491 miles.

I know it is due a service, from then until now it has only done another 2110 miles.
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Old 23-04-2019   #26
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

I remember now seeing the ad. Major service and brake fluid change then good idea. And have plugs checked. 2 years or 18k over the top for changing those. But 5 years would be about right. The non Turbo Twin Air that never came here had different plugs with 4 year change interval. Once done it should be faultless. Also have coolant and waterpump done. Maybe check tyres for signs of rubber degrading too.
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Old 23-04-2019   #27
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Quote Originally Posted by Il Karro View Post
Here is an update people, decide today that i was taking the wheel off myself to have a look at the brakes. Already got a jack that I have used to change a flat before, but invested in a pair of axle stands too. There is a couple of reasons for the axle stands, so thought it was money well spent. I want to remove my alloys one by one and give them a good clean and i also want to clean and inspect the underside of the car.

Got the lug nuts loosened slightly then jacked up the car, could not get the axle stand in beside the jack there wasn't enough room, see pic 1 so where else can i put it .

Left the axle stand as high as it would go with about 5mm of clearance under the plastic cover which is over the sill, thought if the jack gave way then car would only drop onto axle stand, but didn't want to lower car onto axle stand because figured the plastic would break.

Removed the lug nuts and the wheel was stuck, used a mallet to thump wheel at alternate sides and it eventually came off. Took some pictures which i've posted and don't think the brakes look too bad, but wasn't prepared to linger with car only on jack.

So i cleaned the wheel surface and hub surface with scotchbrite then used a damp cloth with a drop of alcohol on it to wipe surface, then put a small amount of oil on a cloth and wiped surfaces with that, to stop it from sticking maybe i did the wrong thing but these were the only things I had at hand. Fitted wheel on, tightened lug nuts, removed axle stand, then lowered jack and tightened nuts.

Took the car round the block to make sure wheel didn't fall off, any tips or ideas or tools you think i should have please comment.

Tell me what you think of the brakes from the pictures. If i get the axle stands sorted out going to remove the wheels at home to loosen all of them.

So if nothing else today, this post might make you chuckle.
I hope you won't think me patronising when I say jolly well done! Especially with getting the stuck wheels off. This is very common on cars where alloy wheels have not been removed for some time. The alloy of the wheel and steel of the hub, assisted greatly by a liberal dusting of winter road salt react together electrolytically and corrode together. A good clean up with some abrasive paper or a nice stiff wire brush and a coating of anti-seize (more on that in a minute) will see this problem largely cured. I think I understand that you are working just on your jack at present? I worry that, especially if you are laying about things with a large mallet, the car might slip off the jack (but you seem aware of this possibility).

Jacking up and positioning of axle stands? I am obsessed with trying not to break the surface of the paint with my jack so I made up some "soft" faces for it. Here's some pictures and also of it in use:

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Although I've never used one, I'm told a hockey puck (which is a hard rubber I believe) placed on the saddle (the black bit which lifts the car) is quite a good protector?

Placing the axle stands? They need to be on a load bearing structural part of the car. So on the sill where the reinforced jacking point is (but you've probably got a jack there already?) so a box section or subframe would be my next choice. I would tend to resist jacking in the middle of a flex beam type rear axle (like our ordinary 2 wd Pandas have) just in case it bent! Here's how I had the stands when I was sorting out the front brakes on "Becky" - our 2010 Panda Dynamic Eco. You'll notice the wooden block on the axle stand? it's there to both protect the paint and give a wee bit of "bite" to stop the stand from slipping:

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Be very careful where you choose as you can do serious damage if you don't choose somewhere robust.

Looking at your pictures, particularly the top right and last ones, The discs themselves look to be in quite good condition. If the inner face of the disks looks like these outside faces I would say they are fine. I do notice, especially on the front one (top right image) that there is a rusty ridge around the outside and near the hub. A rusty ridge, especially round the outer edge, will often cause rubbing/grindy noises. You will find it quite easy to remove it if you rest a screwdriver on the Caliper (the matal part that holds the pads) and whilst pressing the blade of the screwdriver against the corrosion ridge rotate the hub so that the tip of the screwdriver "chisels" the rust off. You can to the same on the inner diameter although it's often the outer edge which causes most noise. When we bought Becky she had been lying for quite a while without being driven and her front discs had rusted up quite a bit. I had hoped that just driving her around and using the brakes aggressively would "bust" the rust off but after a week there was still a lot of "grindy" noises so I dismantled the front discs and they looked like this: (This was the N/S one)

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ID:	199831

Not at all good. I thought I would need to buy new discs. As there was nothing to loose I "attacked" them with a sanding disc and was amazed when the rust flaked away and left an almost perfect disc surface:

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Name:	P1070265 (1).JPG
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ID:	199833

Notice that the whole friction surface is smooth. There is no outer or inner rust "band" to grind against the pads.

The last thing which is immediately obvious is that, again looking particularly at the top right and last pictures in your post, there is no sign of any ant-seize/anti-squeal compound anywhere. It all looks very "dry". I'm not surprised to see this. There is no time built into a typical service schedule to strip calipers off and clean and lube pads and calipers so it's typically not done (especially when brake pad condition can easily be seen without even removing most designs of alloy wheels!) My 3 year old Ibiza looks exactly like this and when I had reason to remove a wheel the other day I had to kick it quite brutally to get it off. Needless to say there was no anti-seize on either the hub or inside of the wheel! I doubt if the wheels have ever been off at any of the 3 services done by the main dealer whilst she was under warranty! Out of warranty now though so she's all mine and there will be a lot of little jobs like this for me to catch up with over the summer.

Now, regarding anti-seize/anti-squeal. Here's my little haul:

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ID:	199840

Back left is Ceramic grease. You can use it on brakes and general fixings like nuts and bolts which you don't want to seize up/corrode. But it really comes into it's own for preventing exhaust fittings from seizing up so making it easier to strip them down later.

In the middle is an "old favourite" of all mechanics - Copper high melting point grease. (Often called, generically, Copper slip I think because one major manufacturer brands his "Copa-Slip") This is a very high melting point grease with ground copper in it which is very good at both stopping moving brake parts rusting/seizing together and damping out brake squeal. However, of late there have been reports of it interfering with ABS sensors (I haven't experienced this but I have started using a special ceramic brake grease "just in case"

On the right is Aluminium grease - like the Copper grease but for slightly different applications.

The two in front are, on the left, a modern ceramic based grease for use where ABS brakes are involved (so just about all the cars on the road today) and, on the right, silicon grease which is useful on rubber parts as it won't degrade rubber like a petroleum based grease will.

And finally. Obviously these anti-seize/anti-squeal compounds, being lubricants, must be applied sparingly and NEVER where they can get onto the friction faces of the brakes (the disc itself or the front face of the pad which grips against the disc!) A light smear on the metal back of the pad where the caliper/piston pushes against the pad and on the lugs where the pad locates in the caliper will often work wonders with stopping brake squeal and, because it keeps things free moving, gives nice, smooth, progressive brakes. I would warn again though not to let it anywhere near the friction faces. It's tantamount to pouring oil on your brakes which would be disastrous!

Probably better if someone can show you first time you try it but there are also some excellent You Tube videos and I bet there'll be a "How To" somewhere in our forum

Hope all this is helpful please do get back to me about anything
Kind regards
Jock
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Old 23-04-2019   #28
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Quote Originally Posted by Il Karro View Post
So i cleaned the wheel surface and hub surface with scotchbrite then used a damp cloth with a drop of alcohol on it to wipe surface, then put a small amount of oil on a cloth and wiped surfaces with that, to stop it from sticking maybe i did the wrong thing but these were the only things I had at hand.
Just thought you might be worrying after my dire warning about "oiling" your brakes. It's not good to let oil anywhere near brakes for the obvious reasons but also brakes get very very hot and oil gets thinner and thinner the hotter it gets so will spread itself out over a large area. Unlike the specialized high melting point greases designed for use in brake work. However if all you've done is rub an oily rag over the centre of the hub so that just a hint of oil is left behind - not applied actual liquid oil from an oil can - you should be all right (and it will make getting the wheel off easier next time of course)

Cheers
Jock
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Old 24-04-2019   #29
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Thanks Jock

all your tips and comments are much appreciated, and it's not patronising. A change in circumstances has given me more time and I have always been interested in car stuff, but never had the time to be hands on.

I like to keep my cars in good condition and hate hearing any unusual or strange noises, if it sounds different I want to know why and get it fixed. My brother is the opposite he just turns the music up, he is driving one of my old cars, got to shut my eyes and put my fingers in my ears when he gives me a lift.

The rubber puck things you spoke about are already ordered getting them for my axle stands too. Your diy ones are pretty good and do the job fine.

Goodnight all.
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Old 25-04-2019   #30
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Re: Panda 4x4 Antarctica very low miles, some queries

Hi Il Karro. I came across this video of a chap changing his pads and discs which I thought might interest you?


It's far from a perfect example of how to do it, for starters I don't like that he seems to be working just on the cheap "suicide" jack that comes with the car - and you can see it wobbling from time to time - But it does show anti-seize/squeal paste being applied. Where you see him using the wire brush in his power drill to clean up the hub you need to know that it's actually the flat surface (where the 4 wheel nut holes are) that needs to be super clean. Any grit or serious rust left here, so it gets trapped under the new disc, will make the disc wobble and give you grabbing brakes. I like to put a VERY THIN smear of anti-seize on this face (between the hub and disc) so it won't rust in place - I've seen discs so badly rusted to the hub that they would not come off with hammering and had to be cut off with an angle grinder! - Bashing 10 shades of s*** out of a very badly rusted on disc is not a good idea anyway as the shock forces will be transmitted to the wheel bearing and you might damage it.

Regarding working on jacks, especially the type you find in the boot. Quite apart from the severe injury you can cause to self or helpers if the car lands on any part of the human body is the fact that, if the car falls off the jack with the wheel removed, The bottom of the car will now be too close to the ground to get the jack back under the car! If you really have to work this way though, perhaps at the roadside away from home, put the wheel on it's side, under the sill. Then if it all goes pear shaped, the car will only land on the wheel so it won't crush you or prevent you getting the jack repositioned. One of the few good uses I can think of for a spacesaver wheel is that it's often thin enough that it will fit on top of the car's full size wheel under the car so reducing the distance the car will fall if the jack fails!

Regards
Jock
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