Here is an update people, decide today that i was taking the wheel off myself to have a look at the brakes. Already got a jack that I have used to change a flat before, but invested in a pair of axle stands too. There is a couple of reasons for the axle stands, so thought it was money well spent. I want to remove my alloys one by one and give them a good clean and i also want to clean and inspect the underside of the car.
Got the lug nuts loosened slightly then jacked up the car, could not get the axle stand in beside the jack there wasn't enough room, see pic 1 so where else can i put it .
Left the axle stand as high as it would go with about 5mm of clearance under the plastic cover which is over the sill, thought if the jack gave way then car would only drop onto axle stand, but didn't want to lower car onto axle stand because figured the plastic would break.
Removed the lug nuts and the wheel was stuck, used a mallet to thump wheel at alternate sides and it eventually came off. Took some pictures which i've posted and don't think the brakes look too bad, but wasn't prepared to linger with car only on jack.
So i cleaned the wheel surface and hub surface with scotchbrite then used a damp cloth with a drop of alcohol on it to wipe surface, then put a small amount of oil on a cloth and wiped surfaces with that, to stop it from sticking maybe i did the wrong thing but these were the only things I had at hand. Fitted wheel on, tightened lug nuts, removed axle stand, then lowered jack and tightened nuts.
Took the car round the block to make sure wheel didn't fall off, any tips or ideas or tools you think i should have please comment.
Tell me what you think of the brakes from the pictures. If i get the axle stands sorted out going to remove the wheels at home to loosen all of them.
So if nothing else today, this post might make you chuckle.
I hope you won't think me patronising when I say jolly well done! Especially with getting the stuck wheels off. This is very common on cars where alloy wheels have not been removed for some time. The alloy of the wheel and steel of the hub, assisted greatly by a liberal dusting of winter road salt react together electrolytically and corrode together. A good clean up with some abrasive paper or a nice stiff wire brush and a coating of anti-seize (more on that in a minute) will see this problem largely cured. I think I understand that you are working just on your jack at present? I worry that, especially if you are laying about things with a large mallet, the car might slip off the jack (but you seem aware of this possibility).
Jacking up and positioning of axle stands? I am obsessed with trying not to break the surface of the paint with my jack so I made up some "soft" faces for it. Here's some pictures and also of it in use:
Although I've never used one, I'm told a hockey puck (which is a hard rubber I believe) placed on the saddle (the black bit which lifts the car) is quite a good protector?
Placing the axle stands? They need to be on a load bearing structural part of the car. So on the sill where the reinforced jacking point is (but you've probably got a jack there already?) so a box section or subframe would be my next choice. I would tend to resist jacking in the middle of a flex beam type rear axle (like our ordinary 2 wd Pandas have) just in case it bent! Here's how I had the stands when I was sorting out the front brakes on "Becky" - our 2010 Panda Dynamic Eco. You'll notice the wooden block on the axle stand? it's there to both protect the paint and give a wee bit of "bite" to stop the stand from slipping:
Be very careful where you choose as you can do serious damage if you don't choose somewhere robust.
Looking at your pictures, particularly the top right and last ones, The discs themselves look to be in quite good condition. If the inner face of the disks looks like these outside faces I would say they are fine. I do notice, especially on the front one (top right image) that there is a rusty ridge around the outside and near the hub. A rusty ridge, especially round the outer edge, will often cause rubbing/grindy noises. You will find it quite easy to remove it if you rest a screwdriver on the Caliper (the matal part that holds the pads) and whilst pressing the blade of the screwdriver against the corrosion ridge rotate the hub so that the tip of the screwdriver "chisels" the rust off. You can to the same on the inner diameter although it's often the outer edge which causes most noise. When we bought Becky she had been lying for quite a while without being driven and her front discs had rusted up quite a bit. I had hoped that just driving her around and using the brakes aggressively would "bust" the rust off but after a week there was still a lot of "grindy" noises so I dismantled the front discs and they looked like this: (This was the N/S one)
Not at all good. I thought I would need to buy new discs. As there was nothing to loose I "attacked" them with a sanding disc and was amazed when the rust flaked away and left an almost perfect disc surface:
Notice that the whole friction surface is smooth. There is no outer or inner rust "band" to grind against the pads.
The last thing which is immediately obvious is that, again looking particularly at the top right and last pictures in your post, there is no sign of any ant-seize/anti-squeal compound anywhere. It all looks very "dry". I'm not surprised to see this. There is no time built into a typical service schedule to strip calipers off and clean and lube pads and calipers so it's typically not done (especially when brake pad condition can easily be seen without even removing most designs of alloy wheels!) My 3 year old Ibiza looks exactly like this and when I had reason to remove a wheel the other day I had to kick it quite brutally to get it off. Needless to say there was no anti-seize on either the hub or inside of the wheel! I doubt if the wheels have ever been off at any of the 3 services done by the main dealer whilst she was under warranty! Out of warranty now though so she's all mine and there will be a lot of little jobs like this for me to catch up with over the summer.
Now, regarding anti-seize/anti-squeal. Here's my little haul:
Back left is Ceramic grease. You can use it on brakes and general fixings like nuts and bolts which you don't want to seize up/corrode. But it really comes into it's own for preventing exhaust fittings from seizing up so making it easier to strip them down later.
In the middle is an "old favourite" of all mechanics - Copper high melting point grease. (Often called, generically, Copper slip I think because one major manufacturer brands his "Copa-Slip") This is a very high melting point grease with ground copper in it which is very good at both stopping moving brake parts rusting/seizing together and damping out brake squeal. However, of late there have been reports of it interfering with ABS sensors (I haven't experienced this but I have started using a special ceramic brake grease "just in case"
On the right is Aluminium grease - like the Copper grease but for slightly different applications.
The two in front are, on the left, a modern ceramic based grease for use where ABS brakes are involved (so just about all the cars on the road today) and, on the right, silicon grease which is useful on rubber parts as it won't degrade rubber like a petroleum based grease will.
And finally. Obviously these anti-seize/anti-squeal compounds, being lubricants, must be applied sparingly and NEVER where they can get onto the friction faces of the brakes (the disc itself or the front face of the pad which grips against the disc!) A light smear on the metal back of the pad where the caliper/piston pushes against the pad and on the lugs where the pad locates in the caliper will often work wonders with stopping brake squeal and, because it keeps things free moving, gives nice, smooth, progressive brakes. I would warn again though not to let it anywhere near the friction faces. It's tantamount to pouring oil on your brakes which would be disastrous!
Probably better if someone can show you first time you try it but there are also some excellent You Tube videos and I bet there'll be a "How To" somewhere in our forum
Hope all this is helpful please do get back to me about anything
Kind regards
Jock
