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Old 09-04-2019   #1
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Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Probably been discussed many times before but after a quick search couldn't find anything

I have a 2013 Panda 4x4 with 175 x 65 x 15 tyres. Will 185 x 65 fit on without rubbing.

I did read somewhere that the Cross has 185's but I am not sure if the Cross has any modifications to wheel arches or suspension to allow the tyres to fit.

Thanks all
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Old 10-04-2019   #2
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by Ian64 View Post
Probably been discussed many times before but after a quick search couldn't find anything

I have a 2013 Panda 4x4 with 175 x 65 x 15 tyres. Will 185 x 65 fit on without rubbing.

I did read somewhere that the Cross has 185's but I am not sure if the Cross has any modifications to wheel arches or suspension to allow the tyres to fit.

Thanks all
According to the owner's handbook, the Cross wheels are different (the suspension is identical to regular 4x4) with a different 'offset' possibly to allow the (slightly) wider tyres to avoid fouling on the inner edges. The regular 4x4 has ET35 wheel offset, and the Cross ET30 -- that 5mm difference may be important?

However, for non-4x4 models, it shows ET35 wheels can be fitted with 175/65R15 or 185/55R15 tyres... so maybe the wheel offset is OK?
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Last edited by Herts Hillhopper; 10-04-2019 at 01:20.
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Old 10-04-2019   #3
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by Herts Hillhopper View Post
According to the owner's handbook, the Cross wheels are different (the suspension is identical to regular 4x4) with a different 'offset' possibly to allow the (slightly) wider tyres to avoid fouling on the inner edges. The regular 4x4 has ET35 wheel offset, and the Cross ET30 -- that 5mm difference may be important?

However, for non-4x4 models, it shows ET35 wheels can be fitted with 175/65R15 or 185/55R15 tyres... so maybe the wheel offset is OK?
Hi thanks for that. I have some on order so I will let you know. I suppose it is not just the slight increase in radius as the 185's are a little wider too I think.

Looking at the rears there should not be a problem and the fronts pointing forward look ok. If anything it might be when the front wheels are turned from side to side. And as you have said maybe the offset fouls the callipers or something weird like that.

I will post back tonight after they are on (or not haha)
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Old 10-04-2019   #4
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by Ian64 View Post
Hi thanks for that. I have some on order so I will let you know. I suppose it is not just the slight increase in radius as the 185's are a little wider too I think.

Looking at the rears there should not be a problem and the fronts pointing forward look ok. If anything it might be when the front wheels are turned from side to side. And as you have said maybe the offset fouls the callipers or something weird like that.

I will post back tonight after they are on (or not haha)
Yes... they are wider. The numbers on the tyre mean this:
185 = the width of the tread in mm
65 = the height of the tyre from the rim to the thread as a percentage of the width
15 = the diameter of the rim in inches.

The 175/65 R15 tyre is 175mm wide and the 185 is, er, 185
Because the height is the same 65 percent in both cases, the 185 tyre ends up sightly bigger in diameter too. In fact, it will be 12mm bigger, on the way past adding 6mm of ground clearance to the 4x4's off-road height. It will also result in the speedo and mileometer being 'out' by a couple of percent (but within the permitted tolerances).

It won't affect the callipers (as they are still inside the same wheel), but it may mean the fronts catch on the subframe edges when on full lock. Let me know as I will in time be looking at tyres for my 4x4 and there's more choice at the 185 width.
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Last edited by Herts Hillhopper; 10-04-2019 at 10:19.
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Old 10-04-2019   #5
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by Herts Hillhopper View Post
Yes... they are wider. The numbers on the tyre mean this:
185 = the width of the tread in mm
65 = the height of the tyre from the rim to the thread as a percentage of the width
15 = the diameter of the rim in inches.

The 175/65 R15 tyre is 175mm wide and the 185 is, er, 185
Because the height is the same 65 percent in both cases, the 185 tyre ends up sightly bigger in diameter too. In fact, it will be 12mm bigger, on the way past adding 6mm of ground clearance to the 4x4's off-road height. It will also result in the speedo and mileometer being 'out' by a couple of percent (but within the permitted tolerances).

It won't affect the callipers (as they are still inside the same wheel), but it may mean the fronts catch on the subframe edges when on full lock. Let me know as I will in time be looking at tyres for my 4x4 and there's more choice at the 185 width.
Ok so the answer to my question is yes they do fit as my 4x4 non-cross which is now shod with 185 x 65 Goodyear's and happy to say there is no rubbing lock to lock. The nearest possibility is a bracket on the strut which has about a 12mm at the closest point on full lock.

Initial thoughts. Bizarrely the car actually looks a little lower or should I say squatter so if you are doing it for cosmetics and trying to make your Panda look tall and rugged, it won't, despite an extra 6mm ground clearance. It also looks a tiny bit more planted from the rear probably due to the extra 10mm of tyre width.

Too early to tell how it affects the handling as I am scrubbing the tyres in but even then I will not be corning until I lose traction anyway. But driving home on the country twisties certainly hasn't done it any harm.

The main thing I noticed is the gearing, first gear is now useable and moving up to second and third seems more progressive and natural. I was staying in fourth on one or two of the hills on the country roads on the way home but to be honest it always kind of laboured up them in fifth anyway. It is quieter too but that is subjective and depends on what your current tyres are I suppose. I was coming off some noisy Pirellis so that's just a bonus for me personally. If there is a noticeable gain in mpg I will let folks know but a couple of mpg is money in my pocket and not the filling stations.

Anyway that's my feedback for anyone considering putting the next size tyre on.

All my pictures are uploading into my gallery upside down but if I manage to work that out I will post a picture demonstrating the ample clearance.
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Old 11-04-2019   #6
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by Ian64 View Post
Ok so the answer to my question is yes they do fit as my 4x4 non-cross which is now shod with 185 x 65 Goodyear's and happy to say there is no rubbing lock to lock. ...The main thing I noticed is the gearing, first gear is now useable and moving up to second and third seems more progressive and natural. .
Thanks - good to know.
Of course, as well as gaining 12mm diameter over the older tyres, I assume those were being replaced because they were worn out? If so that means they had lost about 12mm of their original diameter through tyre wear (from 8mm+ of tread when new to 2mm when replaced), so the effect will be more noticable still.
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Old 15-04-2019   #7
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

With each size up (width wise) of tyre you should reduce the aspect ratio by 2 (i think) so 185 55 should be fitted. Check with a decent tyre specialist. Changing without adjusting the aspect ration will mess up the speedo and might cause MOT issues at test time. The hand book tells you which alternate sizes can be fitted. If you stick to this advice your insurer will also be happy.
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Old 15-04-2019   #8
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by The Panda Nut View Post
...The hand book tells you which alternate sizes can be fitted. If you stick to this advice your insurer will also be happy.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, the handbook shows that the 4x4 is fitted with 175/65R15 tyres and 185/65R15 are fitted to the Cross models as standard (both on 15" wheels).

Using the calculator here https://www.tyremen.co.uk/tyre-size-calculator shows that by fitting 185/65R15 in place of 175/65R5, the difference in speed shown at 70mph is about 2mph - within the recommended maximum variation of 2.5%

Using 185/55R15 would give a difference of 3.6% - too big a variation to be considered 'OK' and which would result in the speedo showing 66mph at an actual 70mph. A reputable tyre fitter would not fit those tyres.
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Last edited by Herts Hillhopper; 15-04-2019 at 23:58.
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Old 16-04-2019   #9
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by Ian64 View Post
...All my pictures are uploading into my gallery upside down but if I manage to work that out I will post a picture demonstrating the ample clearance.
Suspect you are taking photos on your iPhone - photos from mine always come out upside down here unless I use the phone with the 'home' button at the right hand side (and so the volume/shutter button is underneath the phone).

As an aside, while the 185s fit, the handbook shows that snow chains can only be used wit the 175/65 tyres - I guess showing that the clearance is a bit tight. If you want to go somewhere really snowy, seems the 'regular' 4x4 is better than the Cross in this respect!
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Old 16-04-2019   #10
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by Herts Hillhopper View Post
As mentioned earlier in the thread, the handbook shows that the 4x4 is fitted with 175/65R15 tyres and 185/65R15 are fitted to the Cross models as standard (both on 15" wheels).

Using the calculator here https://www.tyremen.co.uk/tyre-size-calculator shows that by fitting 185/65R15 in place of 175/65R5, the difference in speed shown at 70mph is about 2mph - within the recommended maximum variation of 2.5%

Using 185/55R15 would give a difference of 3.6% - too big a variation to be considered 'OK' and which would result in the speedo showing 66mph at an actual 70mph. A reputable tyre fitter would not fit those tyres.
I bow to your better knowledge.
Any variation to an already inaccurate speedo could be difficult though. As mine under reads like mad I dont suppose it would matter though. My speedo reads 70 at an actual speed of about 66-67mph. I presume this would make the speedo more accurate?
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Old 16-04-2019   #11
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by The Panda Nut View Post
I bow to your better knowledge.
Any variation to an already inaccurate speedo could be difficult though. As mine under reads like mad I dont suppose it would matter though. My speedo reads 70 at an actual speed of about 66-67mph. I presume this would make the speedo more accurate?
In the case of putting 185/65s on a 'regular' 4x4 Panda, yes, it will in fact make the speedo more accurate (mine too shows 70 when doing 66 according to Waze).
No speedo can ever be accurate, as the wheels of a car get smaller as the tyres wear - loosing about 12mm in diameter over the life of a tyre and so drifting by 2 to 3%. They are not allowed to 'under read' - which is why a reputable tyre depot should not fit 185/55s to a 4x4 (as that woudl make the speedo read slow)
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Old 13-08-2019   #12
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

As I understand it the panda cross is supposed to come with 185/65 and et30 wheels. We have a 2019 panda cross which came with 175/65 conti ecocontact 6 tyres.

Is there any way of knowing whether I have et30 or et35 wheels?

I'm thinking of changing the tyres to cross climates or vector 3s for the winter. (We have a fell road commute, so it probably makes sense) Will I notice a difference between 175 or 185 tyres, does the offset really matter??

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Old 14-08-2019   #13
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by Neb1 View Post
As I understand it the panda cross is supposed to come with 185/65 and et30 wheels. We have a 2019 panda cross which came with 175/65 conti ecocontact 6 tyres.

Is there any way of knowing whether I have et30 or et35 wheels?

I'm thinking of changing the tyres to cross climates or vector 3s for the winter. (We have a fell road commute, so it probably makes sense) Will I notice a difference between 175 or 185 tyres, does the offset really matter??

Cheers
Take the wheel off - the ET value is cast into the metal on the inside of the face that contacts the hub. (If you have steel wheels it is stamped into the steel around the bolt holes and can be seen without taking the wheels off).

Fiat appear to have stopped fitting the winter/all season tyres to the latest cars - I assume because this gives better fuel economy figures in the new, 'real-world' tests that all new cars have to undergo.
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Quote Originally Posted by Herts Hillhopper View Post
Take the wheel off - the ET value is cast into the metal on the inside of the face that contacts the hub. (If you have steel wheels it is stamped into the steel around the bolt holes and can be seen without taking the wheels off).

Fiat appear to have stopped fitting the winter/all season tyres to the latest cars - I assume because this gives better fuel economy figures in the new, 'real-world' tests that all new cars have to undergo.
Great, thanks for that. i don't suppose the et30 - et35 makes much of a difference, but curious to know what it's come with. The book still says the cross can fit 185 tyres so I'd assume they'll fit fine.

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Old 15-08-2019   #15
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Re: Panda 4x4 185 x 65 tyres fitting

Hi.
Two things come to mind. A narrower tyre has better grip in the wet or snow, just look how well the Citroen 2CV did in the wet and snow with its 125 width tyres.

I recently replaced the Vectors on my City Cross with the top of the range Nexens for much improved ride comfort and reduced noise. In reality we don't get harsh winters here any longer and the chances of using M&S in earnest are slim. In fact I'd most likely sell the four for a good price. the rears are unworn and the fronts have plenty of life in them.
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