Register Login
Mr FIAT - Your #1 source for vintage car parts
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-08-2018   #16
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 8,913
Thanks: 384
Blog Entries: 8
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by oyumurtaci View Post
Things to consider when selecting a battery for a start/stop equipped vehicle:

Lead acid or calcium batteries simply don't pack the punch required for the SS system. They have good instant current but fail prematurely with quick cycles between charging and discharging.

Lithium batteries are lighter and fare better to charging and discharging compared to traditional batteries, but don't do well with frequent high-amp discharges (namely, the Start part of start/stop) as it degrades the cells much quicker.

Glass mat and 'enhanced' flood (acid) batteries are usually the best compromise, but can be quite costly due to them being relatively new and not gaining much traction over lithium.

All in all, I'd say the costs of s/s in the long run far outweigh the fuel and environmental benefits of using it in the first place as having to prematurely replace a battery carries far greater environmental impact (and cost) than the few drops of fuel it saves at a stop light only after the car has warmed up in the first place.

This has to be the most convoluted way of saying ďa car with stop start needs a stop start batteryĒ

There are a few (VERY) expensive lithium batteries for cars but they are for lightweight motor racing applications rather than normal cars, and generally have low power output to start a car a couple of times during a race if needed, certainly not something any normal person would fit or even consider.

There are normal lead acid batteries for normal cars, and glass mat type batteries are specified for all cars with stop start.

These systems are not fitted for your or my benefit, they are purely there to get a car through emissions standards testing. Some cars like the 500 Abarth didnít even bother with stop start as the emissions where already high, it wasnít worth the cost of fitting stop start, it wouldnít have made much of a difference.
__________________
Maker and voice behind the YouTube channel PuntoHowTo

And now the owner of a shiny new PuntoHowTo Drivetribe
AndyRKett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 06-08-2018   #17
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 8,913
Thanks: 384
Blog Entries: 8
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Can't see how its possible to use a lithium battery on a system that's designed for lead acid!!
They are totally different technologies.

Stop start is nonsense in my mind and just a ploy for emissions

Youíre right, lithium batteries are not used for normal car batteries, they cost far too much and lack the punch in the small sizes used for car batteries.

Stop start is not a ploy. Itís not pretending to be anything else. It is 100% for emissions and not for the benefit of the owners of the cars, it is just to get the car through testing. In the real word when you generally donít stop for more than 10-20 seconds the amount of fuel saved is negligible. It only really comes into play when you sit in stationary traffic for an hour, but youíd probably want some heating or aircon depending on the time of year so most would override it.

The Fiat stop start system is ridiculously fragile. If I turn everything off in my Punto it will last a little under 3 minutes before restarting which is not far off manufacturers specs, where as, turn on the lights, fan, aircon, vanity mirror and it will panic and restart the car after a few seconds.

Virtually every other car Iíve own with stop start (3 minis and a vw) as well as the multitude Iíve driven have never had the problems fiat have, they all worked faultlessly and would cycle on and off without any problems only when called on.

The only time you found them restarting was after 4-5 minutes having parked up and not stopped the engine. The Punto wonít even activate stop start after youíve reversed into a parking space, thatís not a fault that designed into the system.
__________________
Maker and voice behind the YouTube channel PuntoHowTo

And now the owner of a shiny new PuntoHowTo Drivetribe
AndyRKett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-08-2018   #18
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 132
Thanks: 8
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Stop start lol when at the lights/junctions these hold traffic up as most who have it don't seem to be getting moving very quick. I'm usually way gone before they move
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

sandeel999 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-08-2018   #19
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Devon and Umbria
Posts: 2,005
Thanks: 196
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by sandeel999 View Post
Stop start lol when at the lights/junctions these hold traffic up as most who have it don't seem to be getting moving very quick. I'm usually way gone before they move
When S/S is working on the Panda it's ready as soon as you depress the clutch pedal so before you're in gear so there shouldn't be any delay.
Thanks JCarp16 thanked for this post
Likes JCarp16 liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

babbo_umbro is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-08-2018   #20
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 132
Thanks: 8
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by babbo_umbro View Post
When S/S is working on the Panda it's ready as soon as you depress the clutch pedal so before you're in gear so there shouldn't be any delay.
I'm talking about s/s in general, seems most are so slow at moving off from lights I'm usually gone before I hear their engine start. The system may work well but it seems most I see can't use it to get away
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

sandeel999 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-08-2018   #21
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 794
Thanks: 13
Trader Rating: 0
JCarp16 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by babbo_umbro View Post
When S/S is working on the Panda it's ready as soon as you depress the clutch pedal so before you're in gear so there shouldn't be any delay.
I agree. S/S on my Panda TA works really well. Never had issues with it. For lights and level crossings it works as it should. I'm wondering if some of those with S/S issues (such as not deploying often or starting the car again after a matter of seconds) have batteries that are weak or not sufficiently charged.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

JCarp16 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-08-2018   #22
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Devon and Umbria
Posts: 2,005
Thanks: 196
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by sandeel999 View Post
I'm talking about s/s in general, seems most are so slow at moving off from lights I'm usually gone before I hear their engine start. The system may work well but it seems most I see can't use it to get away
I agree that many drivers take an age to get under way, specially at traffic lights - I assumed it was just stupidity but it might be the increasing presence of S/S systems.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

babbo_umbro is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 16-08-2018   #23
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 45
Thanks: 2
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Or mobile phones - when people think its OK for a sneaky check or text...
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Panda IIs is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-08-2018   #24
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North Herts
Posts: 1,822
Thanks: 244
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

A slight aside: did you know that Fiat invented the stop/start idea? They made a version of the Fiat Regatta (a booted version of the Strada) called the Regatta ES - for energy (or maybe emissions) saving - back in the 1980s! This was, I believe, the first car to use such a system.
__________________
2018 Panda 4x4 MJ :: North Herts :: Remember, if you find a post helpful, press the smiley face 'thanks' button below
Herts Hillhopper is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 21-08-2018   #25
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Guildford
Posts: 950
Thanks: 112
Trader Rating: 1
R1NGA has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by Herts Hillhopper View Post
A slight aside: did you know that Fiat invented the stop/start idea? They made a version of the Fiat Regatta (a booted version of the Strada) called the Regatta ES - for energy (or maybe emissions) saving - back in the 1980s! This was, I believe, the first car to use such a system.
The 1985 VW Polo Formel-E also had S/S (and long gearing as well) to aim economy. So the idea has been around for a long time now....
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

R1NGA is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-08-2018   #26
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Eskisehir
Posts: 401
Thanks: 38
Trader Rating: 0
Turkey 
Re: Battery

My 1972 Renault 12 also had stop start. The wonky carb idle meant it wouldn't idle, so it died at every stop light but would crank right up with a single turn of the key. Never fixed the idle, so the S/S never failed, worked like a charm every time.
Likes murphyv310, The Pretender, Eklipze3k liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

oyumurtaci is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-08-2018   #27
Moderator
 
g8rpi's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 3,645
Thanks: 367
Trader Rating: 0
g8rpi has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post
<SNIP>


On the other hand, I've a Citroen E-HDi with stop start and it works perfectly as some development and cost has been spent.

<SNIP>

Shame it's a Euro 5 and will soon be banned from the city centres!

Have you actually checked your registration on the TfL website. My 06 plate Croma would appear to be liable to the emissions charge based on year, but it's the mJTD 16V with DPF and the website confirms it's exempt from the charge.


Robert G8RPI,
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

g8rpi is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-08-2018   #28
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,900
Thanks: 143
Trader Rating: 0
Netherlands 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
I agree. S/S on my Panda TA works really well. Never had issues with it. For lights and level crossings it works as it should. I'm wondering if some of those with S/S issues (such as not deploying often or starting the car again after a matter of seconds) have batteries that are weak or not sufficiently charged.
Even after long journeys it dus not work.
Car is stil running the original battery i believe. (not checked it, but it's a factory like black battery)
Normal starting is flawless even in the winter, when it hasn't been use all weekend. turn de key and it starts without hesitation.
And i have everything on all the time, radio, airco, normal lights (not DRL), and whatever more.
__________________
There are Pretenders among us.....
Geniuses with the ability to become anyone they want to be.

FIAT Panda 85 Lounge Sporting.
The Pretender is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-08-2018   #29
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 794
Thanks: 13
Trader Rating: 0
JCarp16 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
Even after long journeys it dus not work.
Car is stil running the original battery i believe. (not checked it, but it's a factory like black battery)
Normal starting is flawless even in the winter, when it hasn't been use all weekend. turn de key and it starts without hesitation.
And i have everything on all the time, radio, airco, normal lights (not DRL), and whatever more.
Are you saying your S/S never deploys?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

JCarp16 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 25-08-2018   #30
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,900
Thanks: 143
Trader Rating: 0
Netherlands 
Re: Battery

Quote Originally Posted by JCarp16 View Post
Are you saying your S/S never deploys?
Yes, never deploys, and i stopped trying.
__________________
There are Pretenders among us.....
Geniuses with the ability to become anyone they want to be.

FIAT Panda 85 Lounge Sporting.
The Pretender is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) Punto POP red battery light....battery is charging. Eireannbaker Other Fiats 3 10-11-2016 14:22
(G) Key fob battery dead - which battery type? AlexanderDeLarge Bravo 2 16-09-2013 15:01
(T) Fuses next to the battery so hot they melted the battery cover fruchty Stilo 9 28-04-2013 15:31
(T) Seicento Sporting 1108 Battery Not Charging Battery Light On SmithSeicento Cinquecento / Seicento 0 30-08-2012 01:02
low battery flash when full battery?? beau Leisure Lounge 6 10-11-2005 21:26