General 4x4 or cross or something else

[srd11]

Hi

Ditching my rubbish bmw X3 for a panda. I live at 1000 feet in the Pennines along a single track road with a steep ascent to it.

Having narrowed things down would appreciate views in a standard panda 4x4 Vs cross .. or something else! Typically get snow 3-4 months of the year with anything from a couple of inches to 10 feet!

Cheers

 

[Al D]

Welcome. The Cross will have hill descent control on the dial up to 30mph. Relatively short 1st and 2nd gears on both models. I've had my 4x4 rolling down a gravel track at Arnside Knott near where I live and it was fine, gears did the braking. I was a passenger at the time. The winter tyres softer for the snow on the 4x4. Sample cars near you anyway.



https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...d=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&make=FIAT&page=1

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...a&radius=1500&make=FIAT&sort=sponsored&page=2

 

[ambient white]

The Cross has to be your number one choice given your location. A lot cheaper than a beemer too.

The other possibility although it won't be available until 2019 is the new Suzuki Jimny.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/suzuki...zuki-jimny-suv-revealed-first-official-images

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Standard 4x4 vs Cross:

The on road ability of 4x4 and Cross should be the same. And off-road, both have same 4wd system, suspension etc. Only difference is Cross adds Hill Descent Control (HDC). The 'terrain control dial' of the Cross offers same 'auto' or 'forced 4x4' settings as the normal 4x4 (which uses a button to switch same choices). Both have same 'electronic diff lock' function. Ground clearance of the Cross is 5mm more, but only through having slightly taller tyres than the 4x4. Both offer about 50mm more than the non 4x4 models. I believe the TA (in either model) has slightly less ground clearance than the diesel, because the sump hangs lower. (I can't find where I read that from though). Both around 150mm or so, so can 'bottom' on offroad tracks used by Landies etc (The X3 has 212 mm) . The Cross has less 'bulky' front bumper which allows a slightly steeper approach angle.

Twin Air (TA) has very low 1st gear (to give off road lugging power and to provide more engine braking). Diesel has less low 1st gear so potentially easier/smoother in slow traffic, and amazing levels of engine braking. (In effect, both have very similar 5 speed gear box, with the TA getting one more extra-low gear added in).

'Normal' 4x4 has winter tyres as standard, Cross has 'all season' boots.

In addition to HDC, Cross adds auto climate control and split rear seat (with 3 belts) to the spec (both can be added to 4x4 - adding climate is £300 extra), and the obvious external trim differences - the Cross is about £1600 more than list price of the 4x4.

All across this forum, tales of the TA failing to reach promised economy. My own 2013-model diesel regularly got 58mpg average and has bettered 64 (and that on a two week trip to hilly Shropshire, including getting there from Hertfordshire). I've just replaced it with a nearly-new 2017 Euro 6-engined diesel 4x4 and (with just 2500 miles on it) fuel consumption less good, at 53mpg average... but I hope this will soon be back to high 50s.

Summary: both equally good. 4x4 is £1600 cheaper. Cross marginal gains off road (mainly due to HDC). I have the 'regular' 4x4 because I don't actually like the external tweaks of the Cross.

Both better than X3... or are they?

 

[Goudrons]

I'll throw a spanner in the works and suggest the Suzuki Vitara.
You can get a 4x4 version with either the NA1.6 petrol, Turbo diesel (1.6 Fiat Multijet engine) or the 1.4 Turbo petrol (Vitara S).


I liked my 4x4 TA but the low 1st gear was a pain in the ass in town and they are quite expensive for such a small car with average kit.


There's question marks over the Multiair system, seems failure rates are climbing and DMF failures are starting to appear as well.


The Mrs bought a Vitara SZ5, fully loaded with kit.
The 1.6 MA petrol engine is a peach with the manual box (go for the Vitara S with the 1.4 turbo if you want auto) and it's been around long enough (last Swift Sport) to safely say it's bombproof.


It handles far better than my 4x4 TA ever did and it's miles more comfortable, Panda seats and driving position aren't the best for the long haul.


You should be able to find deals on them, we did and got nearly 4k off ours, bringing it into Panda 4x4 money.

 

[Al D]

Regarding the Vitara: Lot of car for 9 months old. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...from=2017&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

Though 4 winter tyres probably crucial as SZ4 2wd. Lot of car for someone though.

 

[Officina red]

Can you wait till the new Suzuki Jimny is launched

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Regarding the Vitara: Lot of car for 9 months old. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201805076279935?sort=price-asc&model=VITARA&postcode=la80ja&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&make=SUZUKI&radius=1500&year-from=2017&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

Though 4 winter tyres probably crucial as SZ4 2wd. Lot of car for someone though.

My 12 month old but only 2500 miles Panda was same price (£11,500) ... from Arnold Clarke in Scotland

 

[Goudrons]

I'll throw a spanner in the works and suggest the Suzuki Vitara.
You can get a 4x4 version with either the NA1.6 petrol, Turbo diesel (1.6 Fiat Multijet engine) or the 1.4 Turbo petrol (Vitara S).


I liked my 4x4 TA but the low 1st gear was a pain in the ass in town and they are quite expensive for such a small car with average kit.


There's question marks over the Multiair system, seems failure rates are climbing and DMF failures are starting to appear as well.


The Mrs bought a Vitara SZ5, fully loaded with kit.
The 1.6 MA petrol engine is a peach with the manual box (go for the Vitara S with the 1.4 turbo if you want auto) and it's been around long enough (last Swift Sport) to safely say it's bombproof.


It handles far better than my 4x4 TA ever did and it's miles more comfortable, Panda seats and driving position aren't the best for the long haul.


You should be able to find deals on them, we did and got nearly 4k off ours, bringing it into Panda 4x4 money.

I should add the Vitara's averaging 46 mpg at the moment.
Over the same trips my 4x4 TA averaged 35 mpg.

 

[gar074]

Ditching my rubbish bmw X3 for a panda.

Wow. That's quite a come-down, and not just in size. You may think that your X3 is rubbish, but be very sure you know - and are prepared to accept - what Panda ownership entails before you take the plunge. The Panda is a highly capable little beast, but even those owners who view their Pandas through rose-tinted spectacles (and there are plenty of those on here, myself included) would admit that it's not a premium product. In many respects, it's downright crude. Are you ready for that?

 

[srd11]

Can you wait till the new Suzuki Jimny is launched

Yes... Probably to 2019... I just like to get planning in early!

 

[srd11]

I'll throw a spanner in the works and suggest the Suzuki Vitara.
You can get a 4x4 version with either the NA1.6 petrol, Turbo diesel (1.6 Fiat Multijet engine) or the 1.4 Turbo petrol (Vitara S).


I liked my 4x4 TA but the low 1st gear was a pain in the ass in town and they are quite expensive for such a small car with average kit.


There's question marks over the Multiair system, seems failure rates are climbing and DMF failures are starting to appear as well.


The Mrs bought a Vitara SZ5, fully loaded with kit.
The 1.6 MA petrol engine is a peach with the manual box (go for the Vitara S with the 1.4 turbo if you want auto) and it's been around long enough (last Swift Sport) to safely say it's bombproof.


It handles far better than my 4x4 TA ever did and it's miles more comfortable, Panda seats and driving position aren't the best for the long haul.


You should be able to find deals on them, we did and got nearly 4k off ours, bringing it into Panda 4x4 money.

How do you find the off-road handling in snow?

 

[srd11]

Wow. That's quite a come-down, and not just in size. You may think that your X3 is rubbish, but be very sure you know - and are prepared to accept - what Panda ownership entails before you take the plunge. The Panda is a highly capable little beast, but even those owners who view their Pandas through rose-tinted spectacles (and there are plenty of those on here, myself included) would admit that it's not a premium product. In many respects, it's downright crude. Are you ready for that?

Indeed.. I know I'll feel a significant drop in comfort and all the nice bells and whistles. However economic is dismal (35mpg in a 2 litre) with a light pedal in eco mode and off-road capability severely lacking.

Off-road is critical for me a few months of the year to make sure I can catch the train to work!

 

[Goudrons]

How do you find the off-road handling in snow?

Hers is only 2wd and hasn't really been off road.
There's some good reports on Viva Vitara forum about the Vitara Allgrip's prowess off road.
I think someone went around Iceland in winter in one without trouble or effort!

They sell a lot in Aus and NZ as they love a Jap SUV for their dirt roads and reliability.


My 4x4 TA did get quite a bit of off road action though, boggy farmers fields and rutted farm tracks mainly.

It's pretty peerless in regards to grip, nothing really fazed it there, it's so light it never really broke the surface or dug in too much. (though the new Vitara doesn't weight too much more)

The standard M&S tyres a lot better than you'd think too, both in the snow and mild off road, mine left a lot of other, more expensive SUV's slipping and sliding around like ducks on ice.

I never really had to bother with ELD except when I went a bit bonkers in the snow once.

I found the front of the normal 4x4 to be a bit of a pain.
The lip/splitter of the front bumper is quite low and it's easy to catch, either crossing or just traveling down rutted farm tracks or fairly modest approach/departure angles.
The guard underneath the engine also took quite a few hard knocks.

The Cross appears better shaped at the front, though I've no experience of them.

Although very agile, it never felt that robust.
Maybe it's just me but I always felt if I did these sort of trips everyday, something would break sooner or later and although 1st gear is quite low (and very weary in stop start town driving) it's not a real crawler gear, so you can end up hammering the clutch a bit when it's a bit tricky rather than just trickle the throttle.

Something else to think about is the Duster.
They seem to have sorted their early gripes out (steer clear of early Indian built RHD models) and they are quite well thought of as a cheap softroader that can handle quite a bit of rough, they are cheap and simple and run tried and tested parts, ideal for a bit of abuse without too much wallet pain.

Funnily enough, Duster's seems to hold their price well too, they've always made the top ten least deprecating car lists for the last few years.

 

[Al D]

Ah, if you feel the X3 is thirsty at 35mpg, you won't want a Panda Twin Air then. Herts Hillhopper did well with his nearly new car for the money. Finding the right car not a quick process. Renault's small petrol turbo engines have issues so a Duster 125 TCE not something I'd encourage. If the right diesel Panda appears near you have a go before someone else does.

Richard Hardie where I got my 4x4 have pre registered few of these. This has winter pack. Ignore Trekking in title. Not made anymore. So definitely 4x4.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...ising-location=at_cars&postcode=la80ja&page=2

 

[Al D]

Further to my last post, that's £3330 off RRP. 2 of the 7 cars listed on their website have the winter pack. I'd snap either up in your shoes but that's me.

 

[ambient white]

Ah, if you feel the X3 is thirsty at 35mpg, you won't want a Panda Twin Air then. Herts Hillhopper did well with his nearly new car for the money. Finding the right car not a quick process. Renault's small petrol turbo engines have issues so a Duster 125 TCE not something I'd encourage. If the right diesel Panda appears near you have a go before someone else does.

Richard Hardie where I got my 4x4 have pre registered few of these. This has winter pack. Ignore Trekking in title. Not made anymore. So definitely 4x4.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...ising-location=at_cars&postcode=la80ja&page=2

The Winter pack is a real bonus. Wouldn't be without my bot warmer and quick screen de-icing. Essential equipment "Oop North".

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Agree on winter pack. I wasn't really planning to change mine quite so soon, but the MJ diesel takes a long time to warm up and get heat into the car in the winter. Also, I only had a one-piece folding rear seat. Every now and again I looked around and spotted the nearly new I bought a month or so back at a good price. This had heated seats, but also, the more useful part of the winter pack, the heated windscreen. It also had 60/40 spilt seat, five seatbelts, and metallic paint (the basic white was never really too shiny)... and its Euro 6 so I can feel less bad about it being a diesel. (Oh, and 20bhp more too! The Euro 6 is 95bhp, older ones only 75)
Not driven it much though - broke my arm a week after it arrived

 

[gar074]

Sorry, but if heated seats don't warm your back as well as your b¥m, I don't see the point (there speaks a man with a chronic back problem )

 

[Al D]

Considering can leave heated seats permanently on, shame they're not particularly warm. Though if woke to minus 8 mornings again like from good few winters ago and drove in just a t shirt would be very noticeable am sure. Front screen works well in light frosts but if had elements same as rear window probably wouldn't be able to see out very well. Heated mirrors great in winter. Take for granted then own a Panda without them, no fun.