Graham GB
Member
As post header says our Panda Twinair(2012) has developed a misfire severe enough to bring on the triangle of doom,my local service garage has no idea where to start,any ideas or help?.
Thanks,Graham
Thanks,Graham
Technical Twinair hesiting/misfiring when accelerating
- Thread starter Graham GB
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Technical Twinair hesiting/misfiring when accelerating
Bluetruck
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Sounds like a coil pack or a spark plug has failed. My money is on a coil. Replace them both and get the code cleared. Very quick job to replace them.
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You might want to try new plugs first, my old TA started stuttering a bit and new plugs saw the back of it.
Coils have been known to fail and there were problems with early ones I believe.
But, more worrying, there are reports this is the sort of behaviour you get when the Multiair unit fails.
There's quite a few post on this and Alfa Owners site (Mito used the TA engine) regarding it, worth a search and a read
Coils have been known to fail and there were problems with early ones I believe.
But, more worrying, there are reports this is the sort of behaviour you get when the Multiair unit fails.
There's quite a few post on this and Alfa Owners site (Mito used the TA engine) regarding it, worth a search and a read
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Yep first call would be plugs n coils, use iridium plugs if you can as they’ll last longer. Failing that I’d bring it to a garage or fiat specialist that understands the twins, if your local garage hadent a clue where to start then it’s not the best place for further investigation
Graham GB
Member
Thanks for the replies,i've ordered the iridium plugs & i'll go from there
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Don't want to be doom monger but consider the Uniair module...
How many miles has it done, and has the servicing been kept up?
Hope its the plugs
How many miles has it done, and has the servicing been kept up?
Hope its the plugs
Graham GB
Member
Plugs will be fitted this week,but of course it's stopped hesitating the last couple of days
.Year is 2012 mileage 55K,what is the UNIAIR module?,sounds disastrous & could that be linked with an air-con problem?.
Thanks for the replies.
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The Uniair/Multiair unit is a mechanism the works between the cam and the intake valves to adjust the valves timings.
It uses solenoids to control oil within passageways that act as a fluid link between cam and valve.
It basically uses engine oil as a push rod on the valves.
Altering the pressure of the oil alters the link, thus altering the valve timings.
There have been reports of failures, not many but they are starting to grow.
It's relies on the correct spec and amount of engine oil as it's this that it picks up to act as a fluid link, so it's worth checking and topping up the oil if it's a little low.
There's also a small oil strainer within the system, they can get a bit dirty and it's worth a clean every 30,000 miles or so, and no they aren't part of the service schedule.
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/454649-twinair-valve-actuator-oil-filter.html
It uses solenoids to control oil within passageways that act as a fluid link between cam and valve.
It basically uses engine oil as a push rod on the valves.
Altering the pressure of the oil alters the link, thus altering the valve timings.
There have been reports of failures, not many but they are starting to grow.
It's relies on the correct spec and amount of engine oil as it's this that it picks up to act as a fluid link, so it's worth checking and topping up the oil if it's a little low.
There's also a small oil strainer within the system, they can get a bit dirty and it's worth a clean every 30,000 miles or so, and no they aren't part of the service schedule.
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/454649-twinair-valve-actuator-oil-filter.html
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Very glad for you that it is the plugs.
As Goudrons says, the uniair module essentially does away with the inlet valve cam and allows ariable valve timing and opening to optimise engine performance (or more specifcally immissions I believe - the two don't go hand-in-hand!).
There's a very good link somewhere on this forum to the OEM suppliers data sheet for this module which sits on the top of the engine. Oil and oil spec is everything for the performance of this system; do not cut corners with cheap oil!
The symptoms of this unit failing are hesitancy, missing on one cylinder and associated engine warnings...
Sorry but has nothing to do with aircon...
As Goudrons says, the uniair module essentially does away with the inlet valve cam and allows ariable valve timing and opening to optimise engine performance (or more specifcally immissions I believe - the two don't go hand-in-hand!).
There's a very good link somewhere on this forum to the OEM suppliers data sheet for this module which sits on the top of the engine. Oil and oil spec is everything for the performance of this system; do not cut corners with cheap oil!
The symptoms of this unit failing are hesitancy, missing on one cylinder and associated engine warnings...
Sorry but has nothing to do with aircon...
Graham GB
Member
Thank you both,much appreciate your help,just to be clear,the hesitation has stopped occuring before i have had the plugs fitted,but there's is obviously something that needs attention.
It looks as though i need to find someone who specialises in this Car/Engine,other than my useless main dealer,who sold us the car new.
Can anyone recommend a suitable garage/service centre,we're based in the NW,but i'd consider travelling a distance to take the car to the right person.
Am i better starting a new thread about this?,i havn't even started on the air-con problem yet.
Cheers,Graham.
Maybe try this firm. Sounds perfect. http://www.ferdisgarage.co.uk
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Before you start thinking the worst, check your engine oil.
It's not easy with the TA, the dipstick is better than useless, but make sure it's up at or very near max.
Allow the oil to settle a while after driving before you check, say an hour or so.
If it's short on oil it can cause the Multiair to play up.
Just add a little at a time until it creeps up to the correct mark.
Anyone should be able to change the plugs for you.
There's nothing really tricky about it, with a few tools (10mm socket and a plug socket, see below) you could probably do it yourself.
The only fiddly parts are the air pipe to the turbo, it has a Clic R clip that can be a struggle to reclip again after (without the right tool).
You can bin it and fit a large jubilee clip though.
The plugs themselves require a thin walled plug socket to fit down the holes, they aren't expensive, Laser 3682 fits perfectly.
There are guides about that can help you with the job.
If after there's no difference, then think about getting someone to look at it.
What's wrong with the air con?
It's not easy with the TA, the dipstick is better than useless, but make sure it's up at or very near max.
Allow the oil to settle a while after driving before you check, say an hour or so.
If it's short on oil it can cause the Multiair to play up.
Just add a little at a time until it creeps up to the correct mark.
Anyone should be able to change the plugs for you.
There's nothing really tricky about it, with a few tools (10mm socket and a plug socket, see below) you could probably do it yourself.
The only fiddly parts are the air pipe to the turbo, it has a Clic R clip that can be a struggle to reclip again after (without the right tool).
You can bin it and fit a large jubilee clip though.
The plugs themselves require a thin walled plug socket to fit down the holes, they aren't expensive, Laser 3682 fits perfectly.
There are guides about that can help you with the job.
If after there's no difference, then think about getting someone to look at it.
What's wrong with the air con?
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Graham GB
Member
Thanks,Goudrons.I'll talk to my local garage,the Plugs are there & he's a good guy & see what we can come up with.
I read in a thread in the Forum talking about Fiat respecifiying the oil grade/type for the TA,i'll see if i can find it & work with the Garage to get it ordered & changed.
My worry is that your local garage to quote your own words "has no idea where to start". Its like going to your GP with a serious and complex brain issue, he'd be out of his depth and would refer you to a specialist.
If this is the garage you use for servicing then reading between the lines they are unaware even that the TA needs the correct oil, let's hope they haven't been using Duckhams Q20-50.
If this is the garage you use for servicing then reading between the lines they are unaware even that the TA needs the correct oil, let's hope they haven't been using Duckhams Q20-50.
Graham GB
Member
They have done 2 "services" & have used the oil "grade"specified in the owners book,but maybe not the exact brand.
I've just been reading through old threads trying to find the thread i read that stated Fiat had changed the spec of the oil(for the TA) & quite frankly having read through about 20 pages of posts,i have no idea which is the correct grade of oil for our 2012 TA.
What they would almost certainly not have known about is "resetting" the uniair module? & to be honest i'm not sure where i would find a "garage"who did know the answers.
I have no confidence that the Main dealer we bought the Panda from(we bought it new)would have carried out the servicing any better or without using "budget" oil.
So what i'm trying to do now is figure the "correct"oil(type & make) & then go from there.
I'm not sure what the situation is with resetting the UNI module,but i doubt it's ever been done.
But my local garage does have a lot of up to date Elecronic diagnostic machines etc,although they are not a Fiat garage,they are a specialist VW/Audi garage.
I'm now sort of armed with a little knowledge(which may or may not be correct)which is probably a dangerous thing,so i'll tread carefully.
I think i'm going to ask in a new thread about the definitive oil for my TA,unless someone reads this & answers it for me.
Wish me luck i'll need it,but i'm persistent enough to get there.
The correct oil is Selenia Digitek PE (Pure Energy) 0W30 - this stuff;
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Details&ProdID=8944&sku=262322
Initial specifications (which will be in the older handbooks) were for a 5w40 version of the Selenia oil, but in hindsight this was deemed to be too thick (in the UK at least) and re-specified as the 0W30 instead.
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Details&ProdID=8944&sku=262322
Initial specifications (which will be in the older handbooks) were for a 5w40 version of the Selenia oil, but in hindsight this was deemed to be too thick (in the UK at least) and re-specified as the 0W30 instead.
Hi.
I've scanned my handbook and the Euro 6 supplement.
if we look at Torstens posts re resetting the Uniair module there is some doubt regarding the oil viscosity and whether the old spec should be adhered to on the older engines.
I'd say the Uniair module should be reset anyway but I would like to know if when resetting it on MultiECUscan there is an option for the spec change in 2014. All very confusing for the OP I have to say but until we know for sure that this spec change is valid for pre 2014 engines IMHO I'd stick to old spec, again that is my personal opinion and may or may not be correct.
The other change in 2014 is going from a C3 to a C2 (turbo engines) oil there are rumblings around that C3 is less protective than C2 oils, so this could be a reason for moving to the C2 spec later on.
Selinia Oils are made by Petronas and they will have the very same oils at better prices. https://www.fiat.co.uk/mopar/original-parts/oils-and-functional-fluids/selenia-engine-oil
Ringa's link above is spot on for the post 2014 oils spec and a very good price indeed
Here is the two scans for perusal.
I've scanned my handbook and the Euro 6 supplement.
if we look at Torstens posts re resetting the Uniair module there is some doubt regarding the oil viscosity and whether the old spec should be adhered to on the older engines.
I'd say the Uniair module should be reset anyway but I would like to know if when resetting it on MultiECUscan there is an option for the spec change in 2014. All very confusing for the OP I have to say but until we know for sure that this spec change is valid for pre 2014 engines IMHO I'd stick to old spec, again that is my personal opinion and may or may not be correct.
The other change in 2014 is going from a C3 to a C2 (turbo engines) oil there are rumblings around that C3 is less protective than C2 oils, so this could be a reason for moving to the C2 spec later on.
Selinia Oils are made by Petronas and they will have the very same oils at better prices. https://www.fiat.co.uk/mopar/original-parts/oils-and-functional-fluids/selenia-engine-oil
Ringa's link above is spot on for the post 2014 oils spec and a very good price indeed
Here is the two scans for perusal.
Attachments
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Graham, if your garage has parts supplier they can get this (Selenia branded by Petronas themselves). Total do a similar oil, so if still specified for use by Peugeot and Citroen dealers you can source from them. Also there's a Castrol Magnatec Ow 30 C2 developed for Honda. https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/...ngine-parts1/engine-oils/?521772801&1&cc5_249
I'm quite certain, that that's not the same oil. May well be the same base oil, but both spec sheet and safety sheets are different. So they will have a different additive cocktail - which is equally important as the base oil.
With the correct oil being readily available (mopar, gray's or shop4parts), I wouldn't risk it for the sake of £5 per oil change.
The Synthium range was developed for PSA, Ford and JLR group, the Selenia range was developed by Petronas Italy with and especially for FIAT.
