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Technical Panda TwinAir 0.9 CNG

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Technical Panda TwinAir 0.9 CNG

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Indigo

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Hello everyone. My first post on this forum. I read previous posts in this section and find it a very nice forum with lot of friendly people that love Fiat Panda. Well, I'm about to choose my first car and I must admit that no other car attracts me like Panda. There is some good karma about this car in my opinion. It brings smile to my face. It is car but in the same time it doesn't want to be. That's what I like because I've been cycling and walking for the most of my 36 years long life. And now to come to the main reason why I post. I want environmentally friendly vehicle. Therefore I narrowed my choice of motors exactly to Twinair 0.9 CNG (compressed natural gas or methane). Yep, I would like to make as little impact to the environment as possible so this motor comes as a choice for me. Panda CNG has the following specifications:

63 kW
Fuel capacity: 12 kg CNG
Fuel capacity (petrol): 35 L
Range (CNG): 380 km
Range (combined): 1147 km
Door Count:4/5 Doors
Fuel consumption combined: 4.6 kg/100 km
Fuel consumption (urban): 5.8 kg/100 km
Fuel consumption (extra-urban): 3.1 kg/100 km
CO2-Emissions combined: 107 g/km
Emission Class: Euro5

There are two CNG stations in my town.

Has anyone on the forum tried this Panda version? As far as I read it has higher ground clearance like Panda 4x4 so that the tanks could be accommodated underneath. I guess the weight is higher as well. What about driving impressions and how does it behave when driving it on methane. Methane is also half the price of the gasoline in my country and it's main drawback is lack of CNG stations. I'm not taxi driver where this could really make huge cost savings but I just want to know that I did everything I could to drive eco-vehicle. Any suggestions would be helpful and is appreciated. Thank you.
 
There aren't many of us with CNG or LPG here in the UK, it's not that popular, which is probably why no ones yet replied.

Though we all seem to produce quite a lot of natural gas om here!

The tank for the gas is usually in the boot, where the spare wheel used to live, not sure if the Panda is the same, though I think is might have two small tanks, one in the boot and one under the car it's self.

You normally need to cold start the car on normal petrol and once it's warmed up, switch it/it auto switches to gas, so they aren't really any better over short distances.

They don't produce the same power on gas as they would on petrol, they're often down between 5 to 10% on gas, with bigger engines you don't really notice, but with smaller engines it can be quite noticeable.

They also tend to have slightly more complicated servicing arrangements.
There is usually another fuel filter to change and they aren't well known for being totally reliable, though I think a lot of this is because servicing gets skipped.

Personally, I would just buy a straight petrol and use a bicycle for all the short trips, you'll be better off in the pocket and it'll be better for the environment.
 
Hi.
Although I have no idea about the LPG Panda version a mate of mine has a two year old Volvo with LPG. It's fabulous, no need to start on petrol and just as powerful, he never uses petrol and services to the engine are extended due to the monitoring system. He is a high mileage driver though so I'm not sure of the savings if you do low miles.
Goudrons is essentially correct with his advice but modern systems are very good and up to date management systems compensate for lower efficiency and cold starts.
I'd imagine the TA would be an ideal engine for LPG.
 
Indigo said:
Hello everyone. My first post on this forum. I read previous posts in this section and find it a very nice forum with lot of friendly people that love Fiat Panda. Well, I'm about to choose my first car and I must admit that no other car attracts me like Panda. There is some good karma about this car in my opinion. It brings smile to my face. It is car but in the same time it doesn't want to be. That's what I like because I've been cycling and walking for the most of my 36 years long life. And now to come to the main reason why I post. I want environmentally friendly vehicle. Therefore I narrowed my choice of motors exactly to Twinair 0.9 CNG (compressed natural gas or methane). Yep, I would like to make as little impact to the environment as possible so this motor comes as a choice for me. Panda CNG has the following specifications:

63 kW
Fuel capacity: 12 kg CNG
Fuel capacity (petrol): 35 L
Range (CNG): 380 km
Range (combined): 1147 km
Door Count:4/5 Doors
Fuel consumption combined: 4.6 kg/100 km
Fuel consumption (urban): 5.8 kg/100 km
Fuel consumption (extra-urban): 3.1 kg/100 km
CO2-Emissions combined: 107 g/km
Emission Class: Euro5

There are two CNG stations in my town.

Has anyone on the forum tried this Panda version? As far as I read it has higher ground clearance like Panda 4x4 so that the tanks could be accommodated underneath. I guess the weight is higher as well. What about driving impressions and how does it behave when driving it on methane. Methane is also half the price of the gasoline in my country and it's main drawback is lack of CNG stations. I'm not taxi driver where this could really make huge cost savings but I just want to know that I did everything I could to drive eco-vehicle. Any suggestions would be helpful and is appreciated. Thank you.
Click to expand...

I realise - or assume - you're only quoting them, but your fuel figures don't add up. The range of 380km on CNG assumes all extra-urban running but using the overall consumption figure the range is nearer 260km. The combined range of 1147km is just absurd, there's no way you'd get 760km out of a tankfull of petrol even if you got 380km on gas - the petrol distance would have to be 900km if you take the more realistic figure for the distance on gas. I'm not sure I've ever got 35 litres in my 4x4 TA's tank and if I did it would only get me about 500km maximum. As you say, natural gas Pandas have the raised suspension to make space for the tank (lots here in Italy) but is the petrol tank the standard size? I vaguely remember it was smaller in the earlier model.
 
Whoever said that manufacturer's figures are achievable in day-to-day driving ?

I think the figures add up - for (hypothetical) ideal conditions.

I have put close to 35 litres in the tank many times, so I can believe that completely draining the tank might supply 35 litres of fuel.
I have had a few tankfuls giving around, or just over, 50mpg (calculated), and I have done a 170 mile journey (Cardiff-Croydon,mostly on motorway), keeping my speed down for economy, which gave an indicated 62.9mpg (or about 60.3 'real' mpg).
delete me.jpg

35 litres at 62mpg gives 764 km range. Adding the '380km' CNG range gives 1144km.

Typically, you might get 560km (350miles @ 45.5mpg) from a 35l tankful of fuel, then adding 260km for gas gives 820km.

(BU, I am not talking about a 4x4 here, and neither is the original poster).
 
Looking through some German fuelly type site, these compressed gas powered Panda's use around 3.4 to 3.6 kg of gas per 100 km.

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/16-Fiat/136-Panda.html?fueltype=4

12/3.6 = 3.33, times 100km = 333km on gas.
12/3.4 = 3.53, times 100km = 352km on gas.
So 340km average.

There's no real harm running it out of gas as you can then switch over to petrol.

On Petrol, even though it's a 35 litre tank you aren't going to run it out, so say 32 litres (7 uk gallons) is about max you'd dare use.

7 x 50 mpg =350 miles or 563kms.

563+340 = 903kms or 561 miles.
 
Last edited:
Don't forget to factor in that Gas is cheaper than petrol (certainly in the UK). Its cleaner and if you examine the oil and internal surfaces of an engine run exclusively on gas it's spotless.
With uni air units failing and often due to contamination then in my opinion running gas is a sensible option.
 
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