Technical Lights won't turn off!

[PaulyMcPaulFace]

Fiat panda MK4 1.3 multi jet diesel.

Hey guys
So a while a go I realized that I couldn't turn off my headlights. I've checked the fuse relay box, it's bone dry, I've checked all the fuses and they all seem okay.
I think I've narrowed it down to the actual stalk, the switch doesn't work. I've seen something similar on another thread for a different fiat where the guy found out that it was a wire that had broke within the stalk.

Now how do I get to the wiring of the stalk?

I'm assuming at this point I need to remove the steering wheel, problem is I can't find any info specific to a MK4 panda.

I am keen to do this fix myself as I'm about to pay out to get the EGR valve replaced as well as a few other things so I'm fairly skint for a while.

Cheers guys

 

[varesecrazy]

Only advice I can give:disconnect battery overnight.
That will disable any airbag power.

Then it should be a simple plastic trim battle....
.

 

[PaulyMcPaulFace]

Let the battle commence....

I'll post an update if I get it done, chances are I'll fail, and just have to put up with changing the bulbs more often than I otherwise would.

 

[oyumurtaci]

While we don't have a proper manual for the 312 Panda yet, this issue is somewhat well documented here in the Forum. Folks in warranty get a replacement stalk from Fiat, others haven't had much luck since replacement stalks may (or may not, my memory is fuzzy on this) require an introduction to the vehicle body computer or ECU, which would require compatible ECUscan software and hardware. Then again, since I don't think anyone has undertaken the task of looking at what actually is the issue, you might be a pioneer in the field and figure out what's going on.

 

[PaulyMcPaulFace]

Well at the moment I'm assuming it's a simple broken wire in the stalk. If it does come to replacing the entire unit I would assume so let me s it's the same model it should just plug in and work. I haven't found any replacement stalks yet, just the unit itself that will have both stalks.

So far not so great, I'm unsure on how to remove the steering wheel, well paranoid anyway that I may break it and create an expensive problem. I'm hoping to have time to have another crack at it this weekend.

Pioneer you say....I like that!

 

[PaulyMcPaulFace]

While we don't have a proper manual for the 312 Panda yet, this issue is somewhat well documented here in the Forum. Folks in warranty get a replacement stalk from Fiat, others haven't had much luck since replacement stalks may (or may not, my memory is fuzzy on this) require an introduction to the vehicle body computer or ECU, which would require compatible ECUscan software and hardware. Then again, since I don't think anyone has undertaken the task of looking at what actually is the issue, you might be a pioneer in the field and figure out what's going on.

Also, on another note, I don't suppose you know how long it takes to replace an EGR valve? I don't want to get bent over when I take it in to a garage if you know what I mean. Plus I'm somewhat poor.

 

[murphyv310]

Hi.
If my 2001 Doblo is anything to go by then I'd say the stalk (switch) could well be the issue.
The Doblo had a an intermittent wiper operation that I inherited from the previous owner (Fido, on here)
Occasionally, the wipers would run all the time others they didn't come on.
After an awful lot of searching the stalk was blamed. It was expensive, I was skint and there were none in the scrappy.
I deduced that the contacts were only passing a few milliamps and would either get tarnished or any grease could get conductive if contaminated with debris or even dampness. So sprayed contact cleaner into the area that I thought contained the contacts, it was rather hit and miss as I didn't dismantle the switch but after a fair amount of the cleaner the problem was cured. I had no issues at all after wards.
I'm not saying the same problem is the one you have but it may be an idea to give it a try, so long as you can get to the contacts or even in a join in the moulding ad you aim in the right direction then you may be lucky.
A spare switch could be dismantled so we could see what is actually inside. I also cant see why one of these switches should need to be coded in??

 

[PaulyMcPaulFace]

Nice one, cheers for that. I'll try that first.

 

[oyumurtaci]

Haven't attempted that yet, but considering how ubiquitous the 1.3 mj is, I'd imagine there are plenty of guides out there from a different model.

 

[murphyv310]

It depends on the technology used in the switch. It may be different to my 2001 Doblo now. It is possible they use optocouplers, or a rotary encoder now, they do still get gunged up like in hi fi wolume controls.

 

[wigan_muncher]

Hey they recalled the panda 2012 to programme the body computer for this fault, and if the lights stayed illuminated then if the production date of the switch unit behind the steering wheel was before a certain date then they would change this also.

 

[varesecrazy]

PaulyMcPaulFace

 

[PaulyMcPaulFace]

Hey they recalled the panda 2012 to programme the body computer for this fault, and if the lights stayed illuminated then if the production date of the switch unit behind the steering wheel was before a certain date then they would change this also.

Ooooh, interesting, I shall contact the desira dealership I bought it from, thanks!

 

[oyumurtaci]

If by any chance anyone can get their hands on the service memo for this recall, or the actual recall notice, we could probably use it for all future queries on this issue (though dealers are usually very protective of the internal memos for these recall notices).

 

[Bigrinks]

Hello, ive a 2012 panda project thay has this issue and accorsing to vosa site, im not eligible for a free fix! Theres plenty of folk with this issue and not much helpful advice beyond battery disconnect and hope. Ive been doing a bit of diging, heres what ive found if someone wants to add suggestions to try and bottom this issue out. Test 1, power up car with steering wheel off and disconnect lighting control makes no difference. So the bcu is getting a ground signal from somewhere other than switch.

1, switch itself. Opening this up the wiring is very fine and connects to a small circuit board. 2 wire, simple negative return system ( lights on grounda and sends earth connection to body control unit). Using multimeter, switch and wiring appear fine.
2, body control unit. Under passenger glovebox on uk models. Removed and split this. There no guide to show what the function of the board is. Various micro relays. Having cut away the plastic covers the relay mechanisim is exposed. Wiring the bare board back to the car and tapping eavh relay mechanisim with a fine screwdriver activates various functions such as windows up and down, locking etc. Whilst there are relays that operate with the conteol stalks on the steering wheel, none if them affect lights. The board on the panda is dual layered. Any idea of desoldering replacement micro relays can only be a job for someone even more brave than me.
3, fuse box in engine bay. So stripped this out also to try and identify relay that operates lights. This would allow relay swap to rule out faulty relay. There is no relay and 20amp fuse that controls lights also controls all the power in the car.

Summary so far. The body control unit may well be faulty and can be swapped for scrappy one at the loss of locking as the car keys coded to bcu. Other option is to ignore and leave lights on fulltime controlled only by key. The lighting control has clearly been upgraded from last model. Thinking its computer controlled and will need to source full diagnostic software to test.

If anyone can add usefull suggestions to investigate next im happy to oblige!!

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi Bigrinks

Weve recently gone from an 04 to a 2013

And the control of the lights is certainly 'different'

DRLs are on full time.. but if you flick off main headlights on the stalk.twist there is an obvious delay.. my 2013 punto doesnt do this.. so the panda is obviously controlled 'unconventionally'

 

[murphyv310]

Would this be an MOT fail?

 

[varesecrazy]

Would this be an MOT fail?

What .. headlamp circuit permanently powered?

Possibly.. but I still see Volvo estates on the road

 

[Bigrinks]

Varescrazy and Murphyv310. Thanks for the comments.
1, Yes the twice i tried the headlights before stripping the car to replace airbag i noticed the 3 second delay and the click of what sounded like a solenoid operating front left. I didn't notice at the time if the click was inside passenger foot well or engine bay fuse box. Varescrazy - could you check this for me and let me know where the click comes from?
2, Murphyv310. MOT fail. Yes a good question! Right now the car is in bits (dashboard just been refitted). I don't want to rebuild and then end up stripping again in September when MOT due. I'd rather fix now but i'm moving towards a software issue rather than mechanical or electrical failure. So i might have no choice but to accept dipped lights on constantly. Google searching MOT outcome suggests would be at MOT persons discretion and is of course also subject to multiple forum discussions and debates. Balance of views looks to be possibly pass with advisory. If anyone is an authority on this matter would be good to get a definitive answer to this. sure it will benefit a number of folk with this issue.

Regarding the body control unit. There are 7 relays on here. 6 bigger and 1 smaller. I've opened them all up. Inside each of the bigger ones is a double relay. I've identified the function of all but two, which coincidentally are located beside the other two that are washer jet operation (i.e. stalk controlled). My bet is these are light related. One certainly operates immediately on key power up (the lights are on immediately from power up so you would expect the relay to instantly activate due to fault). I've tried slipping the tinniest slip of paper into the micro connector (to prevent contact being made when relay powers). The hope being the headlights would remain off and i would have ad least identified the headlight control relay. However, makes no bloody difference, so who knows what that relay is doing, fuel pump perhaps?

Can anyone also advise if MultiscanECU registered version actually allows testing of low beam lights. Software seems pretty limited and seems to allow testing of only relate to high beam and fog lights.

I'll post a photo of BCU butchered as described, may at this point help someone questioning whats inside the bcu

[/IMG]

 

[varesecrazy]

i cant upload photo. Perhaps cause i'm new? Can anyone advise on procedure?

Look in Newbie section.. yellow headers

Quite simple really