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Old 14-12-2017   #16
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Re: Help required please

Quote Originally Posted by jamesd84 View Post
I've had a bit of a breakthrough on this; If I start the car without depressing the clutch it starts fine with no cutting out, If I press the clutch whilst starting it cuts out and says start&stop unavailable.
when in 1st gear the car revs itself when releasing the clutch to pull off (which is normal)
seems really odd to me but thinking about it the problem started when I decided to dip the clutch to give the starter a bit of a break.
Can anyone shed any light on this?
You know there's a switch on the clutch pedal that causes the annoying rev-rise effect right? This is something a few of us have disabled. Perhaps it's time you executed the Murphymod.
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Old 14-12-2017   #17
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Re: Help required please

Yeah I know about the switch; how does it restart the engine if it stops due to start and stop if it doesn't know the clutch is depressed?
If it still works I will remove when I get the car back, as its bloomin annoying.
Car is with Motorvogue Kings Lynn at the moment to look at the issue (along with the clutch clattering/vibration), they've given me a Tipo to borrow :-)
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Old 15-12-2017   #18
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Re: Help required please

Just got car back from dealer, they found a fault with the fuel filter housing and have replaced that. Seems fine so far, must have just been coincidence with the clutch I guess as it cut out on them. Just goes to show that air can leak in through a small gap but diesel won't necessarily leak when under pressure.
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Old 15-12-2017   #19
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Re: Help required please

Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post
Have you tried to bleed the fuel filter again?

What tends to happen when cold, is the injector spill off fuel recirculates around the hp pump, rail and back to the hp pump (or fuel filter).

This saves the lift pump pushing and the hp pump dragging lots of cold fuel up from the tank and helps warm/thin the fuel up already in the injection system.

Once it's all warm, it then diverts this spill off fuel back to the tank, which will add a little heat to the cold fuel in the tank.

So now when starting from cold, any air trapped can't vent in the tank, it just gets stuck going around and around this closed loop.

I suspect it's drawing in air around the fuel filter housing as the issue started soon after the filter change.

There have been similar posts regarding these filters.
There is a special tool to undo and tighten the tops, hand tight isn't quite enough to seal them properly.
Also the seal might require changing.

Another suspect is the hp pump, they have been know to leak from one or more of the three oblong cover plates, they usually leak out, but a leaks a leak and air could enter.
Credit where credits due it looks like you were correct, I heinsight I should have spent a bit more time looking at the filter, but it's been bloomin cold
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Old 15-12-2017   #20
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Re: Help required please

Hi.
After 8 years of repairing industrial cleaning equipment and the majority pressure washers, i can assure you that air is an awful lot harder to "suck" than a liquid, any tiny air leak will cause all sorts of issues. Same goes for fuel filters, pumps and pipework even more of an issue with diesel in the cold when the fuel viscosity gets thicker.
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Old 16-12-2017   #21
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Re: Help required please

Quote Originally Posted by jamesd84 View Post
Just goes to show that air can leak in through a small gap but diesel won't necessarily leak when under pressure.
The leak's on the low pressure side. so before the hp pump.
Just think of it as sucking up fluid through a straw with a small hole half way up it, the fluid won't leak out, but you'll get a mouth full of fluid and air.

Now if you cover the end and blow fluid out through the same straw (high pressure side after the hp pump) fluid will leak out of the small hole.

Leaks on the low pressure side tend to draw air in, leaks on high pressure side tend to leak fuel out but both can cause low fuel rail pressure.
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Last edited by Goudrons; 16-12-2017 at 00:46.
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Old 16-12-2017   #22
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Re: Help required please

My above post is wrong air is much easier to suck than fluid. Perhaps I should double check before posting.
Sorry guys.
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Old 16-12-2017   #23
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Re: Help required please

Well that was short lived, struggled to start this morning cut out and then struggled to start again, briefly flashed up some warning lights whilst driving but was too quick for me to see; took it straight back to garage so back in courtesy car again, the twingo they've given us is terrible in these icy conditions (rear engine, rear wheel drive).
just hope I get the panda back before it snows again :-/
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Old 16-12-2017   #24
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Re: Help required please

Hi.
Does your car have a priming/bleed pump on the filter? if it does try it before a cold start and see if it helps. If not try switching on and off the ignition a few times before cranking the engine to help bleed out air.
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Old 17-12-2017   #25
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Re: Help required please

Hi, no its got a lift pump in the fuel tank, this runs for around 5 seconds before the glowplug light goes out and I attempt to start the engine.
I have previously tried running the pump a few times but it doesn't make any difference, I also keep the fuel level above 50 percent as it does look to be fuel supply related.
When I got the car the previous owner had put some black insulation tape over the yellow light in the stop start disable switch, no idea why but I wonder if its related to this fault, it also had a new battery fitted by the dealer just before I picked the car up.
Tempted to reject the car now as I've only had it 6 weeks and its been back to them 4 times now for various things
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Old 17-12-2017   #26
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Re: Help required please

Weird,
Faulty clutch switch? Bad earth?

Robert G8RPI.
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Old 17-12-2017   #27
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Re: Help required please

Quote Originally Posted by jamesd84 View Post
When I got the car the previous owner had put some black insulation tape over the yellow light in the stop start disable switch, no idea why but I wonder if its related to this fault, it also had a new battery fitted by the dealer just before I picked the car up.
Probably because when the stop start button is off, the yellow light on the button is on!
Some find it annoying.

Did you buy it from a Fiat dealer?
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Old 17-12-2017   #28
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Re: Help required please

Yeah car brought from Fiat, it is currently with them hopefully being repaired. They are supposed to be looking at clutch but they told me they're not sure if the vibration at 1500rpm is normal or not!
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Old 19-12-2017   #29
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Re: Help required please

Fixed again! Particulate filter was badly blocked and they think the back pressure was enough to stall the engine, they've done a forced regen.
I'm not convinced
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Old 19-12-2017   #30
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Re: Help required please

Quote Originally Posted by jamesd84 View Post
Fixed again! Particulate filter was badly blocked and they think the back pressure was enough to stall the engine, they've done a forced regen.
I'm not convinced
About the cause, or about the solution?

I'd say it's a reasonable explanation for the symptoms, but I'd be sceptical about whether a forced regen would be sufficient to restore long term functionality of the dpf if it were that badly blocked in the first place.
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