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General Going from a 100HP to a Twin Air (or 1.2) - have you?

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General Going from a 100HP to a Twin Air (or 1.2) - have you?

Goudrons said:
They have a camshaft and that is driven by a cam chain.

It's just the link between the camshaft and the valve lifter is fluid (engine oil).

The engine oil is pumped up into and controlled by the Multiair solenoids via a filter/relief valve into passage ways between the cam and the valve lifter.

By increasing and decreasing the oils pressure within the link alters the valve lift and timing.

Basically it has a "Hot" inlet camshaft profile that works best at higher engine speeds, but not very well at slower speeds.

So it backs off the lift and alters it's timing by reducing oil in the link for slower engine speeds as less oil doesn't transmit the full cam profile, then pumps more oil into the links to transmit the full cam's profile at higher engine speeds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8npI_wY-Bs

As it can control the air entering the engine at all engine speeds better, it does without a throttle butterfly valve in the inlet.

This reduces pumping losses (the effort the engine expends) that would normally be created when the falling pistons suck in air through a closed or partially throttle valve.

There have been a few Multiair problems, though most seem to involve the unit fitted to the four cylinder engines.

As it's reliant on engine oil, it's vital the correct grade and spec is used and that the oils level is correct (wait to you see the dipstick, it's almost impossible to read!).

The oil works hard and is prone, like all turbo charged cars to carbon building up in it, so regular changes should keep it in good health.

Oddly, cleaning or replacing the Multiairs filter isn't part of any service schedule, though it is fairly easy to get at, remove and clean through a cap in the top of the cam cover.
Click to expand...

Thanks for a great explanation and for correcting my misinformation. I actually feel a bit easier about it for reading this. I usually over service so hopefully I will have reliable service and no super costs to contend with in mid engine life.
 
I did a post about cleaning the Multiair units filter, it isn't that hard to get at and I can't for the life of me think why it wouldn't be on at least one of the higher mileage services.

I had been reading up on some of the problems the 4 cylinder units have been having and there were a few posts with images of filthy filters.

There's also been a few regarding rough running and lowish oil levels on the Twinair. You can only assume they weren't picking up the oil properly due to a lowish level.

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/454649-twinair-valve-actuator-oil-filter.html

Mine wasn't bad at all, then again it's had fresh oil every year and only done 17k in nearly four years.
I reckon it probably needs a clean every 30k or so.
 
Rather than start a new topic - is there a 100 HP 'Cooperman' style induction mod that you can do for the TA to give increased induction noise? I know many of us had it on our 100's and it was maybe a bit juvenile but simple, fun and gave back a little of the boy racer in us as when we were 17! :)

I still have the silicone hose and SS pipework that I used to do mine.
 
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Dervdrain said:
Rather than start a new topic - is there a 100 HP 'Cooperman' style induction mod that you can do for the TA to give increased induction noise? I know many of us had it on our 100's and it was maybe a bit juvenile but simple, fun and gave back a little of the boy racer in us as when we were 17! :)

I still have the silicone hose and SS pipework that I used to do mine.
Click to expand...

I've seen 500 TA's that owners have removed the engine cover (which is the airbox) and ran a pipe from the pipe that's left, across the top of the engine (from front left to rear right) with a cone filter on the end.

It's feckin' noisy!

Found it here
https://www.fiatforum.com/tuning/428150-diy-intake-my-fiat-500-twinair-p.html

I thought it might be better to bin the standard filter out of the airbox for a replacement BMC panel filter, then remove the intake ends trumpet and replace that with a straight pipe rather than the trumpet bell style pipe.
 
Ahh, thanks for that - will check it out.

I know there is always a lot of debate about different filters. I prefer to stick with an easily changed and cheap genuine panel item - the beauty of the Cooper mod was it just replaced the restrictive (noise killing) baffle in the air intake, filter was unchanged.
 
Goudrons said:
I thought it might be better to bin the standard filter out of the airbox for a replacement BMC panel filter, then remove the intake ends trumpet and replace that with a straight pipe rather than the trumpet bell style pipe.
Click to expand...

I guess you could also run right through the empty air box with a cone filter on the end of the intake pipe (that you fit instead of the restrictive trumpet).

I reckon that would give a similar sort of airbox howl as you get from big sports bikes.

It seems a shame to dump the engine cover altogether, the early ones with the the red and white "Fiat Twinair Turbo" on them look a lot smarter than a bare engine.
 
I've not seen one in detail of course but is there not just a restriction or baffle or angle of some sort within the air box that could be removed to allow a more direct flow?
 
Goudrons said:
I guess you could also run right through the empty air box with a cone filter on the end of the intake pipe (that you fit instead of the restrictive trumpet).

I reckon that would give a similar sort of airbox howl as you get from big sports bikes.

It seems a shame to dump the engine cover altogether, the early ones with the the red and white "Fiat Twinair Turbo" on them look a lot smarter than a bare engine.
Click to expand...

.... and also maintain the benefits of the well designed airbox too. Good idea !
 
Dervdrain said:
I've not seen one in detail of course but is there not just a restriction or baffle or angle of some sort within the air box that could be removed to allow a more direct flow?
Click to expand...

I'm not qualified to comment on what you might do with them, but here are a few pictures of the cover, air box and filter:

DSCF1223.JPG

DSCF1631[1].JPG

DSCF1626[1].JPG

DSCF1630[1].JPG

DSCF1231.JPG

(Ignore the photo of the oil filter - I inserted this by mistake and it hasn't deleted !)
 

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The air filter is on the underside of the engine cover.
It comes through the intake trumpet, up through the filter.

Through the gap above the filter then out the other end to the turbo pipe.

As the cover is so flat, the gap under the filter in the filter housing (dirty air side) is very tight, so most of the space is actually taken up be the filter.
(poor pics, sorry)



There is only really that small corner of the filter to the left that's not up tight against the bottom of the housing and that's just inside the joint with the intake trumpet.

(useless pic that's upside down! but this is the view through port with the trumpet removed)



Above the filter housing, out toward the turbo pipe is also quite narrow, perhaps a fingers width then is opens out where the turbo pipe fit's.

(opens up where you can see the lagging)

Seems to me the underside of the filter housing on the dirty side is very limited, most of it is blocked by the actual housing.
 
Wow. Super helpful guys, many thanks. I just need to find one to buy!

I bet there's a restriction or baffle/elbow in that plastic trumpet or pipe work though just like on the 100 HP to cut down noise. Just need to look inside or replace just the trumpet with a clean pipe??
 
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Dervdrain said:
Wow. Super helpful guys, many thanks. I just need to find one to buy!

I bet there's a restriction or baffle/elbow in that plastic trumpet or pipe work though just like on the 100 HP to cut down noise. Just need to look inside or replace just the trumpet with a clean pipe??
Click to expand...

Good work too Dervdrain - just the sort of investigation we need! Like all these things, it's a matter of finding the one or two most obvious 'restrictions' in an engine setup and seeing how far along the good-power/quiet-noise compromise journey you feel you're willing to travel.

Some cars are quite heavily restricted on inlet flow in order to keep noise down, as well as maintain 'space' above the model for an RS or similar. My old supercharged Audi S4 was a point in question - that was a 450-480bhp engine with just an induction change and remap (333bhp as stock), which would have taken it waay above the RS4 at the time (or even now, still in fact). Time will tell if there's much to be had from induction changes on our TA's, but the 105bhp engine found that extra 20bhp pretty easily by the looks of things, so I look forward to hearing about your investigations Dervdrain (y)
 
Cheers - need to find one now which is proving tricky. :)

I have quite a narrow criteria but one will turn up - if anyone hears of one let me know!

63 plate onwards Trekking, white with the Pumpkin interior and 3 belts in rear.
 
So you don't want a 4x4 Twinair then?

I was thinking I might know where a 2014 4x4 TA Antarctica might be available soon.

In white with black roof, pumpkin trimmed interior, 3 rear belts, leather trim gear lever and steering wheel, dark diamond cut alloys, 17k with more than a full service history and not a penguin in sight!
 
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I have a TA 4x and although I like it, and it does whats needed, the fuel consumption is a total joke. It will only do respectable mpg on a long run driven gently. My 100HP did nearly 47mpg driven at totally full chat from Norfolk to Manchester the day I sold it. I really want it back. The TA will stay fro now as its economic suicide to change again. I like the car but miss the 100HP more than I can say. It was more than just a car!
 
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