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Old 17-02-2018   #16
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Sorry to drag up an old thread but is this the switch that sometimes breaks causing stop start to no longer work?

It happened to me.... If so I can use this to repair it!
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Old 17-02-2018   #17
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Quote Originally Posted by quotethepigeon View Post
Sorry to drag up an old thread but is this the switch that sometimes breaks causing stop start to no longer work?

It happened to me.... If so I can use this to repair it!
Hi.
I wasn't aware that the switch "breaks" so I personally can't make a comment. If you have an ELM Bluetooth code reader and android phone then Torq can be loaded and it will tell you the clutch position switch has no output if duff or removed. ***Note*** it will not illuminate the ELM if removed or failed in the clutch up position.
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Old 18-02-2018   #18
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

I used to have multiecuscan and some cables but laptop moved on etc..... Will the ELM do the same as multi ?
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Old 18-02-2018   #19
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Quote Originally Posted by quotethepigeon View Post
I used to have multiecuscan and some cables but laptop moved on etc..... Will the ELM do the same as multi ?
Hi.
As yet I haven't invested in a Multiecuscan as I use Linux, I need to check that I would get full functionality using XP and Multiecuscan via Virtualbox.

Re the ELM327 dongle, it wont do everything the above can do but it still is a useful tool. You could of course use AlfaOBD along with the ELM dongle and it is available from the Play store as well.
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Old 19-02-2018   #20
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Hi.
As yet I haven't invested in a Multiecuscan as I use Linux, I need to check that I would get full functionality using XP and Multiecuscan via Virtualbox.

Re the ELM327 dongle, it wont do everything the above can do but it still is a useful tool. You could of course use AlfaOBD along with the ELM dongle and it is available from the Play store as well.
Hi,
MES should work ok with virtual box, you can test it (for CAN INFO) with the demo (free) version.
The ELM 327 is just an interface, the same type is used for MES or Torque and does not affect functionality. MES is MUCH better than Torque for FCA cars. Torque may not give accurate readings for some parameters.
The only extra you need for >2012 Panda is a A3 (Yellow) adaptor lead for full access to some mmodules.
e.g.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152875225743?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152907210346?
or a set
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162904443097?
Avoid the cheap <10 interfaces from China they have a design flaw. I also recommend wired (USB) rther than wireless, a bit of interference during a critical phase of adjustment cout "brick" the ECU. Very rare, but not worth the risk.

Robert G8RPI.
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Last edited by g8rpi; 19-02-2018 at 09:30.
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Old 19-02-2018   #21
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
I also recommend wired (USB) rther than wireless, a bit of interference during a critical phase of adjustment cout "brick" the ECU. Very rare, but not worth the risk.
That's a good thought, Robert. Using a mains powered computer carries a similar risk in the event of a mains spike or power outage; strangely I hadn't thought of this before.

If (like most folks) you're running this on a laptop, make sure you have a well charged battery before you start. A lot of old XP laptops (otherwise ideal for this job) will have batteries that are now well past their best.
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Old 19-02-2018   #22
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
Hi,
MES should work ok with virtual box, you can test it (for CAN INFO) with the demo (free) version.
The ELM 327 is just an interface, the same type is used for MES or Torque and does not affect functionality. MES is MUCH better than Torque for FCA cars. Thorque may not give accurate readings for some parameters.
The only extra you need for >2012 Panda is a A3 (Yellow) adaptor led for full access to some mmodules.
e.g.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152875225743?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152907210346?
or a set
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162904443097?
Avoid the cheap <10 interfaces from China they have a design flaw. I also recommend wired (USB) rther than wireless, a bit of interference during a critical phase of adjustment cout "brick" the ECU. Very rare, but not worth the risk.

Robert G8RPI.
Hi.
Thank you Robert for all the info above. I agree that torq can give incorrect readings and I was caught out with it before on the Rover. Using the correct T4 readings were different. On the Panda it also doesn't see the upstream O2 sensor properly whereas Alfaobd does. I can confirm both see the clutch switch. My ELM327 bluetotth dongle is quite an old one and has been 100% reliable on connections and reading, beware the newer ones.

Thanks for confirming Multiecuscan will work via virtualbox, I will try the demo first but for the Panda I believe it works in a different way, I'm sure I was told via canbus??? Don't quote me as I may be mixed up.
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Old 19-02-2018   #23
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Hi.
Regarding bricking the ECU, the Rover T4 (Testbook 4) had safeguards built in so if the power went off or someone tripped on a lead and comms failed the ECU would not lock out. Surely on a more modern system it would have built in features to safeguard against this scenario?

In fact, a couple of years ago two rather clever Polish gentlemen reversed engineered a system to interrogate and write to the six ECU's on the 75 with the option to read and save all parameters to a file in the software. This made the replacement of duff ECU's a doddle, even coding in keys was simple. This showed how the good T4 could be bettered.
The Polish system was called Toaf.
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Old 19-02-2018   #24
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Hi.
Thank you Robert for all the info above. I agree that torq can give incorrect readings and I was caught out with it before on the Rover. Using the correct T4 readings were different. On the Panda it also doesn't see the upstream O2 sensor properly whereas Alfaobd does. I can confirm both see the clutch switch. My ELM327 bluetotth dongle is quite an old one and has been 100% reliable on connections and reading, beware the newer ones.

Thanks for confirming Multiecuscan will work via virtualbox, I will try the demo first but for the Panda I believe it works in a different way, I'm sure I was told via canbus??? Don't quote me as I may be mixed up.
Hi.
The ELM 327 supports two physical interfaces, K-L or K-Line and CAN (Controller Area Network) Several communication protocols are supported and the decoding of these is done by the ELM 327. The communication with the PC is by serial ASCII commands similar to the old Hayes AT commands. Current FCA cars use CAN almost exclusely and the Panda has two CAN buses on the OBDII port one on the standard pins 6 and 14 and a Fiat specific one on pins 1 and 9. The Yellow adaptor swaps pins 6 and 14 to 1 and 9.
If MES runs to see CAN info in demo mode on virtual box all should work. You doe need to register to access other functions on newer Pandas.

Robert G8RPI.
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Last edited by g8rpi; 19-02-2018 at 11:06.
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Old 21-02-2018   #25
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Great write up and a well worth mod to do.
The MIL light doesn't come on if you are able to do the job and position the sensor/switch lever in the rest or equivalent of the clutch pedal up position. The little lever has a light spring and the lever should stay that way unless it's pressed, all should be fine.
Mine is neatly tucked behind the plastic footwell cowling.


As I don't have, or would know how to use, an electronic re-setting tool, I'm interested in what you say Murphy. Can you describe in more detail how you disabled the switch without disconnecting it please.
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Old 24-02-2018   #26
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Great write up and a well worth mod to do.
The MIL light doesn't come on if you are able to do the job and position the sensor/switch lever in the rest or equivalent of the clutch pedal up position. The little lever has a light spring and the lever should stay that way unless it's pressed, all should be fine.
Mine is neatly tucked behind the plastic footwell cowling.
A nice bright and sunny day today so I thought I would get down on my knees and have a look at this. Yes, you can easily do this without having to disconnect the electrics from the end - so the warning light doesn't come on or have to be re-set. Mine had a zip-tie around the electrics end that held the feed wires close to the switch; this just slipped off the end so allowing me to push the 'weedy' little lever down. Pull the lever to the right by pulling at the base of it otherwise the lever just bends. To get enough 'wiggle' room to remove the switch I had to cut the zip-tie that holds the feed wires on the left (taking a lot of care not to cut the actual wires). That done, I pushed the whole lot upwards to remove from the peddle and then tucked it behind the plastic covering in the centre of the car. The light spring on the switch holds the switch in the original 'peddle-up' position. FANTASTIC! what a difference - I can now do a 'normal' take off without kangarooing down the road... Well worth doing. As nothing gets broken, bent or disconnected it can all be put back again to function as it did originally - but why would one ever want to do that! Brilliant folk on the Fiat Forum, thank you so much, I can now stop falling out of love with my little Panda.
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Old 25-02-2018   #27
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Quote Originally Posted by MuddyPaws View Post
A nice bright and sunny day today so I thought I would get down on my knees and have a look at this. Yes, you can easily do this without having to disconnect the electrics from the end - so the warning light doesn't come on or have to be re-set. Mine had a zip-tie around the electrics end that held the feed wires close to the switch; this just slipped off the end so allowing me to push the 'weedy' little lever down. Pull the lever to the right by pulling at the base of it otherwise the lever just bends. To get enough 'wiggle' room to remove the switch I had to cut the zip-tie that holds the feed wires on the left (taking a lot of care not to cut the actual wires). That done, I pushed the whole lot upwards to remove from the peddle and then tucked it behind the plastic covering in the centre of the car. The light spring on the switch holds the switch in the original 'peddle-up' position. FANTASTIC! what a difference - I can now do a 'normal' take off without kangarooing down the road... Well worth doing. As nothing gets broken, bent or disconnected it can all be put back again to function as it did originally - but why would one ever want to do that! Brilliant folk on the Fiat Forum, thank you so much, I can now stop falling out of love with my little Panda.
Yep - it's a revelation all right. Much nicer.
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Old 25-02-2018   #28
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

I'd say Fiat need a rethink about the zero advantages of this switch. The car will still roll forward on tick over quite happily as the ECU will try to compensate any dip in idle speed, its still great in very low speed traffic.
To me the switch is very much a retrograde step.
No doubt its needed for the SS models but not a base model cooking 1.2.
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Old 09-06-2018   #29
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Honestly can thank you enough - had our 2014 Panda Easy since last March, and on its best day, it's been a pain in the arse... We live in a hilly bit of Gloucestershire, and adapting yer hillstart style to suit (especially after ten years driving a 1.9 Doblo JTD) took some doing.
Had it remapped (or some sort of ECU update) late last year year at the dealers, but it's still been slow to pull away, and like a pogo-stick hillstarting.
This came to a crux on Friday when my wife had to roll backwards down a (very, very steep) local hill because there was no way to coax the car forward in a hillstart. I went out and tried today, and true enough - a really steep slope was too much for the ECU and clutch position switch.
I'm a big old unit who doesn't really fit in the footwell (the step where you lift the yellow cage off was what confounded me), but I got there eventually.

Long story short: it's transformed the car. Thank you so much.

(also: first post - HIYA!).
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Old 10-06-2018   #30
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Re: FIAT Panda clutch switch Euro6

Quote Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Mine doesn't have stop start. Does any 1.2 Panda have it?
I don't think so, i don't think the 1.2 FIRE is up to code for that.
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