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General 1.2 vs twinair

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General 1.2 vs twinair

I'm sure this is right. Dual-carriageway trips (I hesitate to use the word 'blast') at 60+ cause the average mpg to drop like a stone. But I still reckon I need economy driving lessons from PaulD. Race you round the Southern Bypass? Slowest one's the winner! :D
 
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murphyv310 said:
Hi.
It could all be down to the number of cold starts. My Rover 75 2.5V6 auto only managed 19mpg round town which is my main usage. On a run from Tain to Kilmarnock it did 36mpg. The Panda is doing the mid forties in comparison to 19 in the Rover. For me it's wonderful so I don't mind giving it a bit of welly now and again.
I know I can do much much better if I wish. Years ago I did a Mobil economy run in a 1971 Skoda 100 and got 55.1Mpg, I will need to dig out the certificate if I can find it.
Perhaps on the next fill up I'll do what I did then.
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I think you're definitely onto something there. My economy on long trips is much better on a series of smaller trips on similar roads. I think the car uses a lot of fuel on start up. When it was running in it seemed to run really rich to the point where the exhaust looks sooty. That seemed to settle down after the first few thousand miles.
 
PaulD said:
These are all very interesting comments regarding the TA and the 1.2 engines. I am delighted with my TA. It has been completely reliable over 52,000 miles, and remarkably fuel efficient. Over the past 24,000 miles averaging 53.1 mpg according to the trip computer and, a true 51 mpg when measured filling brim to brim.

These are for the Cross so i consider the economy to be excellent, and on a par with the 1.2.

I use the car to commute 50 miles daily, and over the past year it has completed long drives from Norfolk to NW Scotland and the Inner Hebrides, Southern Brittany (with a bike on the back), Northumberland, the Peak District (several times), and used off road to access some sites.

Were such a package to be available, it would be interesting to know what a 1.2 engined 4x4 would achieve in terms of economy.

I don't think there is a more complete package in terms of capability, performance and economy, bar possibly the 1.3mJet engined version. I had one of these in my previous Cross and had marginally better economy.
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I'm glad someone else is getting similar figures to me. I was beginning to think Fiat had put the wrong engine in my car. A 1.2 fitted with a system that makes Twin Air noises through the stereo.
 
gar074 said:
I reckon that PaulD either has the lightest right foot in Christendom, or his Cross TA was sprinkled with magic super-economy fairy-dust at the factory!

I've driven mine like a nervous nun with a sore big toe for the last 1k, and have achieved the dizzy heights of 46 mpg. Currently at 42 mpg overall, over 25k miles. :(
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Zacly - identical average MPG and total distance as mine. I think we've been here many times before, but steep (Surrey) hills within half a mile of a cold start kills my economy. As does stop-start traffic, which I encounter most of the time. But let's not get hung up about mileage figures again, as the overall cost difference on a typical 6-8000 annual total is not exactly massive. If you do 7,000/year at the low-end a average of 43mpg, a year's worth of fuel will cost £886 (@ an average of £1.20/litre). Drive like a nun and make 48mpg (at the cost of any fun or 'progression'...) and you'll save precisely £92, that's all.

For what it's worth, on a trip to Le Mans and back this year, over about 700 miles, in 30C or more heat, with full A/C, back seats down full of camping gear, sitting at a GPS measured 130kph, I averaged only 38mpg, so maybe my car's a bit of a duffer :(
 
R1NGA said:
For what it's worth, on a trip to Le Mans and back this year, over about 700 miles, in 30C or more heat, with full A/C, back seats down full of camping gear, sitting at a GPS measured 130kph, I averaged only 38mpg, so maybe my car's a bit of a duffer :(
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No, that's in line with expectations.

Do the same trip at a GPS measured 80kph with the A/C off and the windows shut, and you might have averaged another 20mpg. You'd have saved about £35 in fuel, but at what cost in time and personal comfort?

Fuel is only a small part of the total cost of running a car; for most folks, the difference isn't worth the candle. Anyway, 38mpg is probably at least double what you'd have got from one of the few 1960's cars capable of cruising at 130kph.
 
Just got back from the Lake District, Eco mode and AC on all the time, 70mph on the motorway where possible and trip says 48mpg !!(probably 44-45 really ?)
Considering its a Cross I think that's ok.
The TA just gets better and better, on previous trips I've had to switch the Eco mode off to climb some motorway hills but this time never felt the need just changing into 5th was enough for all I came across.
 
pasotibbs said:
Just got back from the Lake District, Eco mode and AC on all the time, 70mph on the motorway where possible and trip says 48mpg !!(probably 44-45 really ?)
Considering its a Cross I think that's ok.
The TA just gets better and better, on previous trips I've had to switch the Eco mode off to climb some motorway hills but this time never felt the need just changing into 5th was enough for all I came across.
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Just got back from another week in Spain. Lucked-out on a Panda this time and we had a Peugeot 208 diesel. Over 1000km it averaged 45mpg, which I thought was disappointing.

Awfully noisy of course but the in-built satnav was very good, the cruise-control a nice play and the up-hill torque was nice. But all that gear-changing (what, no 20mph in 5th?) - I just can't get along with diesels.
 
AB100 said:
Just got back from another week in Spain. Lucked-out on a Panda this time and we had a Peugeot 208 diesel. Over 1000km it averaged 45mpg, which I thought was disappointing.

Awfully noisy of course but the in-built satnav was very good, the cruise-control a nice play and the up-hill torque was nice. But all that gear-changing (what, no 20mph in 5th?) - I just can't get along with diesels.
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But what a pretty car ?
 
If the 208 quite high geared and have to keep changing cogs, 45mpg not bad at all. Expect to make good fewer gearchanges going back to a 1.2 by end of this month (at least on the flat anyway). In theory there should be only 6 mpg in it round town. But longer journeys will be the difference. If Fiat gave me a new TA 4x4 and said I had to keep for 5 years I'd accept it. Wouldn't buy another though.
 
just a thought??? does the city cross have the same engine as the lounge 1.2? and does anyone have any experience of the city cross driving experience?
 
Fionam said:
just a thought??? does the city cross have the same engine as the lounge 1.2? and does anyone have any experience of the city cross driving experience?
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Same engine yes. Smooth and quiet. Rare and rather expensive though.
 
I went from a TA Trekking to a City Cross and it does have the usual 1.2 engine. The driving experience is more refined than the diesel and TA, but feels slower due to having less torque. I found the TA better on fast roads and long journeys because of the extra torque and longer gearing. For me personally though, the TA was just a bit too noisy around town. Having said that, plenty of others on the forum will say they actually like the noise it makes. At the end of the day it's all a matter of personal preference. Before deciding I'd recommend you first try a Panda with the 1.2 engine for comparison.
 
Fionam said:
just a thought??? does the city cross have the same engine as the lounge 1.2? and does anyone have any experience of the city cross driving experience?
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I've had the use of an 18 plate 1.2 City Cross for a couple of days last week whilst my Alfa Giulietta was having some warranty work done. Really liked the City Cross, but I wasn't too keen on the 1.2. I used to love that 1.2 engine but it felt hard to get a smooth pull-away at junctions where it suddenly revs as you let the clutch up & set the gas - I've found the same with the newer Fiat 500 1.2's to one degree or another. Based on that, I wouldn't personally want anything with the latest incarnation of 1.2 FIRE engine in it - anything post 2014 I believe. Otherwise the City Cross was pretty refined and smooth with not too much noise for such a small car. The suspension was quieter than I expected and the interior felt solid & well screwed together.

I've not driven a Panda with a TwinAir engine but I've driven my Mum's old 500 TwinAir 85bhp for the 3+ years she had it and loved it. I think I prefer the Panda to the 500 as a car overall, but the TwinAir engine was nicer to drive than the 1.2, for me personally.

I'd agree the 1.2 is much smoother and quieter around town (except pulling away), but up hill it was gutless - it just revved more & more but didn't get any quicker. The TwinAir is a raucous little beast but it used to take off like a scoulded cat in our 500 and once up to speed and on faster roads, you could hardly hear the engine - weirdly it gets quieter the faster you go, unlike the 1.2 which booms into the cabin when you're upto 60mph+. I'd definitely try & have a go in a Panda TwinAir. The Cross spec is expensive for a Panda (but looks v nice), but in 4x4 or Lounge/Easy trim it's a lot more affordable.
 
JTD_Liam said:
I've had the use of an 18 plate 1.2 City Cross for a couple of days last week whilst my Alfa Giulietta was having some warranty work done. Really liked the City Cross, but I wasn't too keen on the 1.2. I used to love that 1.2 engine but it felt hard to get a smooth pull-away at junctions where it suddenly revs as you let the clutch up & set the gas - I've found the same with the newer Fiat 500 1.2's to one degree or another. Based on that, I wouldn't personally want anything with the latest incarnation of 1.2 FIRE engine in it - anything post 2014 I believe. Otherwise the City Cross was pretty refined and smooth with not too much noise for such a small car. The suspension was quieter than I expected and the interior felt solid & well screwed together.

I've not driven a Panda with a TwinAir engine but I've driven my Mum's old 500 TwinAir 85bhp for the 3+ years she had it and loved it. I think I prefer the Panda to the 500 as a car overall, but the TwinAir engine was nicer to drive than the 1.2, for me personally.

I'd agree the 1.2 is much smoother and quieter around town (except pulling away), but up hill it was gutless - it just revved more & more but didn't get any quicker. The TwinAir is a raucous little beast but it used to take off like a scoulded cat in our 500 and once up to speed and on faster roads, you could hardly hear the engine - weirdly it gets quieter the faster you go, unlike the 1.2 which booms into the cabin when you're upto 60mph+. I'd definitely try & have a go in a Panda TwinAir. The Cross spec is expensive for a Panda (but looks v nice), but in 4x4 or Lounge/Easy trim it's a lot more affordable.
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Good points, though coming from a Giulietta the 1.2 would feel gutless anyway. It's just how you get used to things and what you expect. Like I expect to slope around in 5th all day and pull away (slowly) at 20mph, or to skip gears all the time.

Now - on the point of setting off, as we've documented several times, it's critical to disable the stupid clutch-switch which does all that weird revving faff. It spoils things enormously. So the first thing to do with any Euro6 1.2 is to disable that switch.
 
AB100 said:
Now - on the point of setting off, as we've documented several times, it's critical to disable the stupid clutch-switch which does all that weird revving faff. It spoils things enormously. So the first thing to do with any Euro6 1.2 is to disable that switch.
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I was sooo disappointed I had bought a 1.2 until I removed the clutch switch. A 10 minute job to slide it off and tuck it away behind the plastic trim. Now, pulling away smoothly is easy and I’ve fallen back in love with the car.
 
i finally got a drive in a twinair yesterday as my sister bought a fiat 500 twinair

and i LOVED it. So wish i had bought one now.
 
lauryloo said:
So wish i had bought one now.
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You won't if the uniair or turbo fail out of warranty :rolleyes:.

But I'd agree that for folks taking the car new on a 3yr pcp, the TA could well be worth the extra monthly payment.

And if this is you and you've taken a 1.2, there's always next time :D.
 
Phils panda said:
I can change gear well up the revs like 4500 rpm in my TA and it doesnt bother it one bit ..forget the change indactor.. And Carlube 5w40 in its belly to..
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The change indicator is there for folks who focus on economy and engine life, not performance.

Which makes it somewhat redundant, really; if your priority was low cost mediocrity, you wouldn't have bought a TA in the first place.
 
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