General The pros & cons of Panda ownership?

[ian2144]

Hi guys,

I'm almost at the buying stage. Is there anything I should know or look out for when looking at a Panda apart from the obvious second hand checks.

Is it possible to remove the rear seat altogether ? as I will use it as a van most of the time but always handy to have the back seat available. Do all modern Pandas have A/C or would it be a specific model? The other thing I would like to do is fit a Towbar.

 

[The Pretender]

A simple AC is so far i know standard on every Panda.
I would choose the ACC though, much better to have.
A Lounge version would always be my choice.

PROS, it is a lot of fun.

CONS, ?? i don't know.

 

[Panda 4x4 TA Antarctica]

Ian - you don't say what model you're interested in? I have a TwinAir 4x4, which has a/c (but not climate control) as standard, as well as a Thule (now Brink, I believe) removable towbar.
As a small car to tow a lightweight camping trailer (don't quote me, but I believe the figures are 400kg/750kg unbraked/braked, respectively, with a ~50kg noseweight limit), the Panda acquits itself well. If you're towing in hilly areas, the lower first gear and additional pulling power of the T/A 4x4, or the torque of the diesel variants may help?
We love the versatility of our Panda, something perhaps enhanced by the version we have, but I'm sure present in all Pandas.
Downsides? I don't like how rich the TwinAir engine runs on cold-start - you can smell it! It has caused fouled plugs on one occasion, but a relatively easy fix.
There is the odd little rattle, though with 2x car-seats and a variety of cr*p in the door bins and glove box, it's sometimes hard to determine if this is the car or the junk we haul about in it!
The only other small, city car that appeals at the moment is the new Twingo. Quite like the idea of that car, though in the Panda the boot is always 'just big enough'. I suspect in the Twingo, if you have a family etc, you may find boot space occasionally lacking.
Enjoy your purchase!

 

[Panda 4x4 TA Antarctica]

Ah, and "not sure" on rear seat removal - I'm sure it's possible, but never looked at the process!

 

[ian2144]

Probably looking at 2WD - 2012-2014 with low mileage. From what I'm hearing, winter tyres on standard Panda can be almost as good as the 4x4.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

removing the rear seats can be done by unbolting the fixings, so not something to try too often, but to make a van, yes, doable. (In Europe they sell a van version - http://www.vansa2z.com/Fiat-Panda-Van-launched-in-Italy).

You can see the seat fixing bolts here: https://www.fiatdalys.lt/diagrams/B5/B536000EA26E5F877622AF7E29A169CC.png Part 3 is bolted to the side of the wheel arches, and the bolts marked 6 hold the base in,

The towing limit for the diesel is a little more (900kg on my 4x4), and there are 'fixed' towbars for the Panda from less than £100 (the removable ones cost rather more).

The 'basic' air con is fine. Only thing: if you take the seats out and use it as a van, is that seen as a 'modification' by an insurance company?

[later: spotted that the van interior floor panels - shown in the link above - are shown in the spare parts lists: https://www.fiatdalys.lt/diagrams/3A/3A1458993E429B8A9DE04E64063A6680.png ]

 

[ian2144]

Thanks for the info. I will look a bit further into rear seat removal, it's possible I could work with them in situ. I just thought taking them out would have given me a bit more space.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Look ay Hedley's Towing for great prices on quality bars. Fitting is easy .

 

[Goudrons]

Not every model has air con.
It's standard on the 4x4's, Trekkings and Lounge's and was a option on Easy's, though they did eventually sell an Easy Air model, (Air for air con.)

Digital Climate Control I think is standard on Cross's and a cost option on 4x4's, Trekkings and Lounge's.

I don't think either was offered on the basic Pop model in the UK, though the windows do open!

You can spot models with it by looking at the fan speed control, if it has air, the knob will have a orange light on it and it operates by pushing the knob inwards when the fan in turned on to any speed.

Towbars are readily available and can be quite cheap depending on which you want.
Fitting is quite easy, it replaces the "crash bar" behind the rear bumper cover and just bolts on using the same mounts as that.
Some require a bumper cut underneath, but it's not visible.

A simple 7 way bypass relay is all that's needed for a single 7 pin socket, though the relay's live needs routing from the front of the car, there's no live pickup in the rear.
So it's a matter of routing a suitable cable through the car, under the door sill covers etc, into the boot.
There's plenty of space for the wiring behind the carpet, behind one of the rear light clusters.

There are also dedicated wiring kits that take some of the wiring hassle out of fitting, though they do cost a bit.
https://www.pfjones.co.uk/tow-bars/fiat-towbars/fiat-panda-towbars/fiat-panda-2012-on-towbars.html


There was a change in production for cars in early 2014 (around March, so 14 plates and onwards) to accomodate the latest Euro regs for the 1.2 petrol engine., which is by far and away the best engine for a Panda, it's robust, yet cheap and easy to service, it's also very reliable, smooth and offers all the power a Panda needs.
(the change didn't alter the road tax band, so both are still £30)

The change altered some driving charateristics and quite a lot of owners didn't like it, particularly repeat owners who knew how the older ones drove.

The main complaint is the fact the ECU takes over and increases the rpms a lot more when lifting the clutch in first gear, like a lot of modern cars do.

Owners can bog the engine down when it relinquishes control by inputting too much throttle themselves while it's in control of the revs, which can cause a bit of a flat spot, they can also feel a bit strangled and tight when you boot it, pre 2014 cars seem to rev much freer in my opinion.

Having or have had both a post and pre car, I can say I prefer the pre 2014 cars, though in slow shuffling traffic, the post cars can be a little easier to live with as they'll creep really easily on the clutch without any throttle input at all.

I would advise test driving both, see which you prefer.

I regards to the rear seats, most models came as four seaters, so only two rear seats/belts.
A three seat rear bench, with an extra roof mounted belt was an option.
Oddly enough there seems to be a glut of Pop's on the market with the three bench option for some reason.

 

[babbo_umbro]

If fuel consumption is a major issue and performance is not, then the 1.2 is fine, otherwise I'm not sure I agree about the 1.2 engine - the difference between my 4x4 TA and Mrs b_u's 1.2 up long hills with a significant load is very noticeable. TA has some acceleration in reserve at 85 mph but the 1.2 hasn't.

 

[AB100]

If fuel consumption is a major issue and performance is not, then the 1.2 is fine, otherwise I'm not sure I agree about the 1.2 engine - the difference between my 4x4 TA and Mrs b_u's 1.2 up long hills with a significant load is very noticeable. TA has some acceleration in reserve at 85 mph but the 1.2 hasn't.

I'm hoping this will be noticeable when we get our Twinair Lounge next week. I took the 100hp out of the garage for a run today and the torque was delicious. Be sad to see that go really.

 

[jrkitching]

If fuel consumption is a major issue... ...TA has some acceleration in reserve at 85 mph but the 1.2 hasn't.

If fuel consumption is a major issue you won't be going anywhere near 85mph .

The 1.2 has less performance but will also cost you less to run. As well as the fuel savings, some of the wear & tear parts are significiantly cheaper.

Can't speak for the current model, but on the previous Panda, removing the rear seats was a simple 5minute job. You're left with what is basically a small van - I've carried a washing machine in it without difficulty, other than lifting in & out. Not sure what the insurance implications would be for running like this permanently (the seats out, not the washing machine in!).

 

[babbo_umbro]

I'm hoping this will be noticeable when we get our Twinair Lounge next week. I took the 100hp out of the garage for a run today and the torque was delicious. Be sad to see that go really.

Yes - I still miss my 100HP.

 

[babbo_umbro]

If fuel consumption is a major issue you won't be going anywhere near 85mph .

The 1.2 has less performance but will also cost you less to run. As well as the fuel savings, some of the wear & tear parts are significiantly cheaper.

Can't speak for the current model, but on the previous Panda, removing the rear seats was a simple 5minute job. You're left with what is basically a small van - I've carried a washing machine in it without difficulty, other than lifting in & out. Not sure what the insurance implications would be for running like this permanently (the seats out, not the washing machine in!).

The TA's consumption is very temperature-dependent.

(Mrs b_u's MJ Mk3 did about 60, her current 1.2 Mk3 gives about 50, and my lamented 100HP gave 40). I get around 38mpg around Devon but on the 4x4's latest trip to and from Umbria (its eighth) - the temperature was in the 35-38 (95-100 F) range for almost three months and the average over 5500 miles was 42 - including the to and from journeys, 1300 miles each way mostly at 80-85mph and carrying a lot of wine and olive oil on the way back. The 4x4 still impresses with the way it grunts up long hills - the steady climb to the San Gottardo tunnel from the Italian side goes on for miles - there's also a really stiff climb for a long way just south of Basle - and the TA hauls the coals up them in sixth unless an Audi driver gets in the way.

 

[ian2144]

As I'm down sizing from a Shogun, fuel consumption is bound to be way better ....

 

[jrkitching]

As I'm down sizing from a Shogun, fuel consumption is bound to be way better ....

Those of us who are dedicated to ecodriving average 55mpg+ from the 1.2 petrol. On longer runs, seeing 75mpg on the trip is not unusual, but you'll have to keep below 55mph to see this .

It's only real weakness is that, like most petrol engines, it uses quite a lot more fuel when cold, so short journeys kill consumption.

 

[Al D]

To my knowledge the Panda Easy was never made without air con. And climate control is optional. The Pop can be ordered with air con as an option. But not remote locking. Would end up same OTR price as an Easy anyway. I wouldn't have a 2017 model year Easy as appears to have CD player with 2 fewer speakers now (4 instead of 6). Plus alloys as an option now 15' rather than 14'. Doubt the poster of this thread is too bothered about any of this though.

 

[AndyCalling]

Regarding air con, I think it has changed depending on the year in the UK. I have recently bought a 2012/13 release Panda Easy Twinair Turbo. In 2012/13 the Pop didn't have air con at all, that was part of the Easy package. Every Easy (UK anyway) had air con at the start of the mk. 3 release, so I doubt it ever got dropped. I don't think it was even an option for the Pop at that time. Being as how you're looking second hand, be aware that at least the older Pop models will not have air con. I never saw one that did when I was hunting.

If you want climate control, at least for a Panda of the 2012/13 vintage, you'll need a Panda Lounge I think though it might have been an option for the Easy but I never saw one that had it when I searched. That stuff is complicated and can go wrong at which point it costs a bundle to fix though, so perhaps not a reason to get the Lounge version.

FYI my Panda has really great air con that certainly out-does a slightly newer Fiesta.

Note that the 2012/13 versions of these cars never had ESP traction control stuff or whatever it is, just swanky intelligent breaking and ABS. It was an option, but I never saw one that had it. From the 2014 release onwards it came as standard, but I believe you can't turn it off so you choose when you buy.

Watch out for the Euro 6 standard compliant engines, they are said to be a bit weaker. The 2012/13 versions have a full cream Euro 5 engine, later models will be Euro 6. Not sure when the switch happened? Perhaps 2014 is Euro 5 still? Best to check. [UPDATE: On reading other posts, it seems only 2012/13 models have Euro 5.]

OK, so it's harder to find, but wait and give a Twinair Turbo version a test drive. You'll really be pleased you did.

 

[murphyv310]

Other than a couple of issues that my bought used 2014 1.2 has had I can assure you I have little to moan about.
The 1.2 is one of Fiats finest, an old design now but these Fire engines are strong, free revving, quiet and economical. Don't expect Porsche performance or masses of torque, mine is a Euro 6 version but kept in tip top condition, with regular services, decent plugs and an oil catch tank then she will pull fine use the gears, keep the revs up and you'll find the car great.
Drive below 65 mph and be rewarded by excellent economy, just remember if you drive like your on the Mobil economy run to give it a thrashing every now and again, just don't get Basil Fawlty to do it.

 

[AndyCalling]

Other than a couple of issues that my bought used 2014 1.2 has had I can assure you I have little to moan about.
The 1.2 is one of Fiats finest, an old design now but these Fire engines are strong, free revving, quiet and economical. Don't expect Porsche performance or masses of torque, mine is a Euro 6 version but kept in tip top condition, with regular services, decent plugs and an oil catch tank then she will pull fine use the gears, keep the revs up and you'll find the car great.
Drive below 65 mph and be rewarded by excellent economy, just remember if you drive like your on the Mobil economy run to give it a thrashing every now and again, just don't get Basil Fawlty to do it.

It is still worth trying a Twinair Turbo before committing though. A person will know immediately which they want. I tried both and in the Twinair Turbo I could not stop smiling. It brings a bag-load of fun to driving.

Some spares may cost a little extra on the Twinair, but I found the UK second hand cost of the car to be about the same as the 1.2 (unlike when new). Odd that, since trim level (Pop/Easy/Lounge) certainly impacts price. It's just they're harder to find. I assume because once bought, no-one can part with them.