Technical 2012 Panda Pop rear disk conversion?

[MunchBunch]

Hey there mysterious strangers of the Interwebnet,
I'm pondering the idea of converting my Panda (Ling Ling) to brake disks all round? I know drums can be more efficient on a day to day basis and blah, blah, blah! I'm not looking for reasons against doing it, just possible ways of doing it?
I thought if the 500 or something had rear disks I could just replace parts? i'm looking for a bolt on solution basically?
Any thoughts?

thanks!

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

4x4 models have rear disc brakes... but also have different rear suspension arms too, which may mean the parts don't interchange. The 2012-onward 4x4 Panda uses different rear brakes to the 500 (unlike the 2004-2012 model, which was largely a 500 in disguise and where the brakes were identical) the post-2012 model has fewer parts in common with the 500 (and is I believe more closely related to a Brazilian-made Fiat)

 

[Squadrone Rosso]

TBH, even the basic cars aren't in anyway under braked.

 

[babbo_umbro]

... I know drums can be more efficient on a day to day basis and blah, blah, blah!...
Any thoughts?

thanks!

Can't agree - since their handbrake issues were sorted out about thirty years ago, discs have been better in every respect.

 

[murphyv310]

Hi.
Even if there was a way to fit discs to the rears, it would be termed a modification and insurance would need to be informed.
If you ever owned a Rover 75 you'd be over the moon with the simple and basic drums in the Panda. The Rover had silly little separate hand brake shoes, a soft metal compensator that stretches so after only a few hard uses of the lever it was nearly vertical. The brakes I have to say on my Panda tick all the boxes.

 

[oyumurtaci]

the 2004-2012 model, which was largely a 500 in disguise and where the brakes were identical

Technically, the 500 is a Panda in disguise, as it took 3 years of development after they started selling the '04 Panda to turn one into a 500 rather than come up with the 2 door Panda 100hp everbody wanted. Basically every current European Fiat model bar the new Aegea/Brava can have their lineage traced back to the good old 04 Panda.

As for the matter at hand, I'm going to err on the side of "it's doable" in that I doubt Fiat bothered to re-engineer the whole rear subframe and hard points between the regular Panda and 4x4, so it's entirely plausible to find a crashed 4x4 from a breaker yard, take out the whole rear suspension, hubs, brakes and wheels, and bolt it onto the regular Panda since they're both trailing arm torsion beams. This is, however, based entirely on the speculation that Fiat is as lazy as I think they are and all the bolts, hard points and undercarriage will line up just fine. Being Fiat, they're also just as likely to have gone about scratching their left ear with their right elbow, gone the cheapest route, and have the engineering interns re-design everything to make it work as cheap as possible, resulting in a complete lack of interchangeable parts and a nightmare to work on.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Being Fiat, they're also just as likely to have gone about scratching their left ear with their right elbow, gone the cheapest route, and have the engineering interns re-design everything to make it work as cheap as possible, resulting in a complete lack of interchangeable parts and a nightmare to work on.

I would assume that latter option is more likely!

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Maybe these will help? Close up drawing of the rear suspension from the disc-braked 4x4 model: https://www.fiatdalys.lt/diagrams/34/343D8C293FB98125415F6184BE1BB720.png

and for the 2 wheel drive with rear drums...https://www.fiatdalys.lt/diagrams/0E/0E0E5C1457237A60DAA482A02B335AFA.png

If the hub carrier marked '5' in the 2 wheel drive rear end can somehow fit the various locating holes for the 4x4 version (where of course the hub also has a driveshaft connected to it) then maybe you can?

On the 4x4, the rear callipers fit to this part https://www.fiatdalys.lt/diagrams/B4/B49C013895D6806719BC14527D2319CA.png - using the two rearmost holes in the item labelled '1' (the arrow of '1' points to one of those holes)

 

[muttleysdad]

Does the brake distribution thingy under the bonnet need changing or adjusting for disks on the back? I tried this years ago on a Ford Escort. The car was un-drivable as the rear brakes snatched too hard and would lock up under normal braking. The system was set up for drums on the back and applied too much pressure to the rear.
Just a thought.

 

[Gerryf]

Maybe these will help? Close up drawing of the rear suspension from the disc-braked 4x4 model: https://www.fiatdalys.lt/diagrams/34/343D8C293FB98125415F6184BE1BB720.png

and for the 2 wheel drive with rear drums...https://www.fiatdalys.lt/diagrams/0E/0E0E5C1457237A60DAA482A02B335AFA.png

If the hub carrier marked '5' in the 2 wheel drive rear end can somehow fit the various locating holes for the 4x4 version (where of course the hub also has a driveshaft connected to it) then maybe you can?

On the 4x4, the rear callipers fit to this part https://www.fiatdalys.lt/diagrams/B4/B49C013895D6806719BC14527D2319CA.png - using the two rearmost holes in the item labelled '1' (the arrow of '1' points to one of those holes)

Links are dead I'm afraid

 

[chris3234]

Can't agree - since their handbrake issues were sorted out about thirty years ago, discs have been better in every respect.

Drums are far better for maintenance they can goes several years with nothing needing to be touched
Unless disc's that need stripping and cleaning every year especially in the rear due to low use

 

[gullyfoyle]

Wish the 4x4 had drums on the rear, discs are not necessary and the maintenance and replacement are a real pain in the arselette.

Oh’ and the handbrake is ****��

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Links are dead I'm afraid

They are. That site is closed. I’ll post links to another.

Discs may be a pain for DIY replacement but on a full lift they can be done quite easily. The Fiat specialist in Royston, North Herts, quotes it as a 65 minute job. One advantage over drums is they still perform well in the wet.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Drums are far better for maintenance they can goes several years with nothing needing to be touched
Unless disc's that need stripping and cleaning every year especially in the rear due to low use

I’ve found the rear discs do get used, and the pads needed changing at every second set of fronts. The 4x4 seems to use rear brakes more. Never had to strip - but then my cars used to do 16-20,000 a year.

 

[gar074]

The 4x4 seems to use rear brakes more.

My experience also. My Cross is still on its original front pads at 55k miles (although not for long...) but the rears were changed 15k miles ago.

 

[varesecrazy]

Links are dead I'm afraid

4 years old

Shame as that was an excellent site

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

4 years old

Shame as that was an excellent site

Same info available on another though

 

[timmycm850]

If i'm honest.

going over to discs is just going to give you the rattly rear pads and pads that clunk when you go from forward to backard's.

unless your adding over 40bhp to the engine stick with the drums but just upgrade the pad material( no insurance issues) at the front or maybe go for vented discs.

Tim

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

My experience also. My Cross is still on its original front pads at 55k miles (although not for long...) but the rears were changed 15k miles ago.

That's an odd one: my experience has been fronts lasting 40k mies or more, and rears 60-80k -- never had the rears wear out first. That might suggest they've not been freeing off properly - maybe through low use (or not carrying weight in the back often enough, as they are load-sensitive)

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

If i'm honest.

going over to discs is just going to give you the rattly rear pads and pads that clunk when you go from forward to backard's.

unless your adding over 40bhp to the engine stick with the drums but just upgrade the pad material( no insurance issues) at the front or maybe go for vented discs.

Tim

Never had any rattles or clanks from mine (in four 4x4s over the years)... only the occasional 'honking' sound on reversing but latest one came with factory-fitted mod to stop that.