The government , highways agency, TV, radio, super markets.......

jackwhoo said:

The government , highways agency, TV, radio, super markets.......

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Ha ha... nice one Jack. I have to admit that one reason I have my health issues is constant work with my younger years being a Radio & TV engineer and working in McKnight motors in Ayr at weekends then fitting clutches in Skodas along with other work on them. Heath went wrong 11 years ago but I worked till 2015 when I was unfairly dismissed. I'm still waiting on a knee operation which has been delayed due to ongoing problems with my heart even after a double CABG. I still like to do most of my own car jobs and after some issues with the dealer I'll not go back.
I'm sure there are good dealers out there but not in this area sadly.

It is so wrong when we don't get what we paid for , agreed.
I am 100% behind you doing your own car fixes and staying away from dealers.
Stick at it , with luck keeps the mind flexible even when the body is becoming less flexible.

Huge good luck with heart health and knee op.
No kneeling at all on the new knee , when you get it.
Jack

I know dealers dont give a s*** but do you think home servicing devalues cars by not having a stamped service book...just a thought.

Phils panda said:

I know dealers dont give a s*** but do you think home servicing devalues cars by not having a stamped service book...just a thought.

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Bit of a sweeping statement about every single dealer of every marque in the world.

My intention is to keep this Panda as long as possible. I'll have receipts for all the parts and as long as I'm fit I'll keep a note of the work done. All mots will be kept but all the info is available online anyway.
Whether service history really matters in my case is questionable.

Near me you can hire a four post ramp,tools and overalls for 10 pound hour..

Phils panda said:

Near me you can hire a four post ramp,tools and overalls for 10 pound hour..

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Yes we had a similar place here many moons ago. Seems DIY on cars is now a thing of the past.
I'm lucky in having, ramps, axle stands, valve spring compressor, pullers and all the usual hand tools, unfortunately no really heavy can be tackled now.

Yer cars are made dealer servicing now.Fiat twinair service parts more expensive than say 1.2 engine..

Hi.
I would say the car feels a bit better today, it's not right though. I'll try it over the next few days and see if it improves and also check if any codes pop up or irregularities in the live data. Fuel consumption also has dropped which is odd as on a run with the initial fault I got 53mpg. I'm also wondering if there was something up with one of my fuel ups. Will need to wait till the tank is below a quarter before topping up.

Hi.
When I dropped the missus off at an old lady she cleans for this morning I managed to squeeze in £13 of petrol, doing a quick calculation I'm still getting 45mpg so not hugely out. What I did notice very quickly was another improvement, the hesitation is still just about noticeable but the jerking and the feeling like a slight miss appear to have gone. The only other thing is the second last time I filled up the filling station was out of 95 and I had no option so used 98 which I'm sure the last time I used it made the car run not so well. I'm off the Newcastle next week so by the return it'll only have 95 in the tank. Surely all the issues were not down to fuel..... makes me feel like an idiot

murphyv310 said:

Hi.
When I dropped the missus off at an old lady she cleans for this morning I managed to squeeze in £13 of petrol, doing a quick calculation I'm still getting 45mpg so not hugely out. What I did notice very quickly was another improvement, the hesitation is still just about noticeable but the jerking and the feeling like a slight miss appear to have gone. The only other thing is the second last time I filled up the filling station was out of 95 and I had no option so used 98 which I'm sure the last time I used it made the car run not so well. I'm off the Newcastle next week so by the return it'll only have 95 in the tank. Surely all the issues were not down to fuel..... makes me feel like an idiot

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It's perfectly possible for a duff batch(es) of fuel could cause bad running, but I'd be surprised if good 98/99 makes it run like that. I always run cars on Shell-99 or BP Ultimate and have never had a problem. The only time I felt some increased rough running with a fuel was trying Aral-102 in Germany in a Renault Spider, as it clearly wasn't going BANG at quite the same point as my normal 99.

I'd say way more likely to have been duff fuel from one station or the other.

R1NGA said:

It's perfectly possible for a duff batch(es) of fuel could cause bad running, but I'd be surprised if good 98/99 makes it run like that. I always run cars on Shell-99 or BP Ultimate and have never had a problem. The only time I felt some increased rough running with a fuel was trying Aral-102 in Germany in a Renault Spider, as it clearly wasn't going BANG at quite the same point as my normal 99.

I'd say way more likely to have been duff fuel from one station or the other.

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Yes I tend to agree.
What gets me though is the errors and that the upstream Lambda probe initially was reporting a heater fault then the live data being wrong. Cleaning the sensor took away the heater issue and the live data improved greatly, this is why I'm a more than a bit confused. is it co-incidence or the effects of poor or contaminated fuel??

murphyv310 said:

Yes I tend to agree.
What gets me though is the errors and that the upstream Lambda probe initially was reporting a heater fault then the live data being wrong. Cleaning the sensor took away the heater issue and the live data improved greatly, this is why I'm a more than a bit confused. is it co-incidence or the effects of poor or contaminated fuel??

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Poor fuel can certainly trash Lambda sensors. Remember back in 2009/10 when Tesco and/or Sainsburys went through a pile of bad fuel that left deposits and coatings on one particular type of O2 sensor and rendered them pretty much inoperative. Engine Lights on, bad running and in some cases, no running at all. A lot of the cars affected were French, as they all used a similar type of susceptible component. Cost the supermarkets a lot and the fix was simply to replace all the lambdas.....

R1NGA said:

Poor fuel can certainly trash Lambda sensors. Remember back in 2009/10 when Tesco and/or Sainsburys went through a pile of bad fuel that left deposits and coatings on one particular type of O2 sensor and rendered them pretty much inoperative. Engine Lights on, bad running and in some cases, no running at all. A lot of the cars affected were French, as they all used a similar type of susceptible component. Cost the supermarkets a lot and the fix was simply to replace all the lambdas.....

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It was Tesco . I have feeling it was bit earlier than 2009 but it's just a feeling.
Petrol had silicon added in error (the silicon was meant for batch of diesel to reduce foaming)

The contaminated fuel affected all makes of cars with O2 sensors.

Another issue too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi.
Well I am still getting some running issues and today I decided to look at the MAF sensor. Low and behold it was covered in oil.
I cleaned it with carb cleaner and refitted it, all perfect for 10 minutes then it came back. Took the sensor out again and it was oily. I have cleaned out the orifice and refitted it. I wonder if the Bosch air filter could be the issue. The original Fiat filter has the usual paper filter material but has a fibrous material on the air input side. The Bosch filter has foam and I'm wondering if this is restrictive to air flow allowing the engine to pull air from the engine breather??
What is the foam actually for..... sound deadening?
Do these engines need an oil catch tank?

If air filter has foam over normal paper filter I think the foam is intended to trap "larger" particles and the paper "finer" particles.

jackwhoo said:

If air filter has foam over normal paper filter I think the foam is intended to trap "larger" particles and the paper "finer" particles.

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Yes that sounds right
Is there any reason the MAF would get oily? Excess back pressure, I certainly hope not or there will be a divorce!!

I think your car has a MAP sensor rather than a MAF sensor , please put me right of I'm wrong.
MAP sensors are very tolerant to contamination compare to MAF sensors.
using MES have a look at readings and see if they are as expected.

How is the lambda sensor strange reading situation?

Hi Jack.
Well I have been a run after cleaning the MAF? MAP sensor, this time I had cleaned out the hole and as much as I could get to with a cotton bud. After a 25 minute run the car was faultless and the live data for the upstream O2 sensor was fine. I have even refitted the Denso iridiums and the car is flying. I personally think the car has never been worked hard enough by the previous owner, that and poor servicing has caused the issues. I'm going to investigate about fitting an oil catch tank, any excess oil reaching the inlet manifold will gradually get to the inlet valves and cause carbon build up on the backs of the inlet valves, this can be quite power robbing.
At least now I know what the problem has been.
Thanks for you're help.