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Old 17-04-2017   #31
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Re: Still none the wiser...

I am totally with you Murphyv310
believe they also help with smoother
Gear changes by smoothing out torque pulses to gear box.
friction plate damper springs also involved. All of that is more springs than I think are healthy.
In case of this petrol Panda it must be fully protected from torque overload!
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Old 17-04-2017   #32
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Re: Still none the wiser...

Hi.
Not all DMF's have springs in the driven plate TBH. I don't think the 1.2 has a DMF, the engine mounts are very flexible in this version and it has the feel of a solid flywheel as well.
I can see the reason with the TA, it has a cylinder firing on each turn of the flywheel whereas a 4 pot it's every half turn so to damp out vibration a heavy flywheel would be needed on the TA with its 2 pot engine, a DMF would be the answer but of course DMF's are not exactly light. At anything above tick over there would not normally be a problem. The thing is in days gone by with a 2 pot engine a solid flywheel would have been fine, the 2CV, Fiat 500 & 126 coped fine but the TA is capable of over 100bhp and lots of low speed torque so those pulses need to be damped out, a mere hydraulic clutch damper wont help, so Phils "damper" is a bit of a mystery.
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Old 17-04-2017   #33
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Re: Still none the wiser...

Thanks Murphyv310 the whole picture makes more sense to me.
The hydraulic damper fiat is using on diesel 500s/pandas etc is to stop clutch pedal vibration/noise when releasing clutch pedal.
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Old 18-04-2017   #34
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Re: Still none the wiser...

If it is a hydraulic damper (and I'm not saying it isn't) it's designed to remove vibrations transmitted via the fluid from the clutch pressure plate fingers and release bearing back to the clutch pedal.

The flywheel/clutch tends to swish as it goes around causing a pulse back through the fluid and this is ment to remove it.

Dual Mass Flywheels dampen and protect the crank and gearbox from excessive torque.

Though we tend to think of these producing something like 145Nm of torque, the intial spike as the flywheel and clutch come together can be massive.
There's a formula to work this spike out, but it's long gone from my mind!
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Old 18-04-2017   #35
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Re: Still none the wiser...

So is this only on the twinair models or on all pandas??
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Old 18-04-2017   #36
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Re: Still none the wiser...

To conferm to all those members ....Yes it is a clutch damper and is connected to clutch pipe work.
I sent a pic to SG Petch in york who confirmed the part via their auto data spread sheets..
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Old 18-04-2017   #37
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Re: Still none the wiser...

If something has access to the parts data base for Panda 12+
Please check the part numbers for the clutch pipe to slave cylinder(it may be only available as part of clutch master assembly)
Check if part for twin air is same as diesels. If it is then the twin air is meant to have the hydraulic damper.
We have to remember that it is a fiat and may have had whatever was to hand fitted when built.
The pipe with damper cost fiat more than pipe without but it would cost a hell of a lot more to stop production of non damper pipes in short supply.
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Old 18-04-2017   #38
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Re: Still none the wiser...

About time there was a decent manual and exploded views for all versions of the 2012+ Pandas
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Old 18-04-2017   #39
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Re: Still none the wiser...

clearly not fitted on all pandas .
The pretender already posted for you that his twin air doesn't have one.
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Old 18-04-2017   #40
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Re: Still none the wiser...

Maybe because my my twinair is a early one. 61 plate 2012. They revisied the clutch damped due to production costs..
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Old 18-04-2017   #41
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Re: Still none the wiser...

I think they didn't fit anything to some and fitted some others with a coiled pipe, which I think does the same sort of job.

Looking on here, I can't see the cap type thing listed.
(though I didn't look too hard)
https://www.fiatdalys.lt/en
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Old 18-04-2017   #42
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Re: Still none the wiser...

On the diesels the coiled pipe wasn't effective enough (on some individual cars) so the damper was introduced and retrofitted for some owners who made enough fuss.
Thanks for the fiat Daly's link .
Unfortunately the drawings on the parts diagrams are often inaccurate and cannot be relied upon.

I think Tony at the factory had one too many Friday lunchtime before assembling Phil's car, if Tony is readings this I'll bet he is laughing himself silly with all the fuss it has caused.
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Old 18-04-2017   #43
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Re: Still none the wiser...

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
Mine is from 30 November 2012.
Looks like we've got twins. Mine was also first registered 30-Nov-2012
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Old 18-04-2017   #44
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Re: Still none the wiser...

Does yours have a clutch damper..
Lets see if we can identifi the members twinairs with a damper...
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Old 19-04-2017   #45
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Re: Still none the wiser...

Who's Tony?
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