Very sad that your car has run in to these kind of problems so early .
Although the new quote for 1500 is a lot less depressing the uncertainty around the state of gearbox still is very annoying.
I do wonder if you bought the car from the dealer where it's currently at.
If so I feel that they should also make an effort to come your way and not only hide behind the Fiat importer.

To be fair, clutches and pressure plates are easily the biggest wear items on all AWD vehicles as they endure much greater loads than those of 2wd vehicles. That being said, unless someone was doing clutch-drop launches in first once a week there's no reason it should fail so early in the life of the vehicle. My condolences too, and I hope you don't give up on the 4x4 without at least experiencing some of the joy it can offer.

I bought the car from a different fiat dealer to the one it is now at. I had difficulty finding a second hand fiat 4x4 around here, so I went a bit further afield. Had I known the problems I would have waited until I could find one closer to home. I think the dealer where the car now is are doing their best.

my condolences, that's still a hefty bill for a relatively simple fix,

at least you'll have the opportunity to now see the car without fault, and see if it really suits you.,

Charlie - Didcot

Tough luck, all a bit of a bummer. I'd have thought any damage to the gearbox would be indicated by play in the bearing on the gearbox input shaft, as that would be subject to the greatest risk of damage caused by the failing flywheel. If that bearing seems OK I imagine you'd be pretty safe.

As I said in last post, I logged a call on my own behalf with Fiat. They responded fairly quickly with a phone call from Milan! They have now offered to supply the parts, gearbox, flywheel and clutch at reduced rate, and from the dealer I now have an offer to do the whole lot for £2400. This is still a lot of money but I will then have a car I can drive and consider replacing.

Well that's at least something. Good to see that Fiat is willing to help out. Still a lot of money but then everything should be solved and there will be no worry about the gearbox.
Hope everything works out and you get to enjoy the car for a long time without trouble.

Well, at least Fiat haven't completely washed their hands of the problem, and in fairness to all concerned, there's no way of knowing if this is down to the car having been seriously abused during the first two years of its life (it's the first TA DMF failure I've heard about on a 500).

That said, £2400 is still an outrageous amount to be paying for what is essentially clutch failure on a 38month old low mileage car .

To put it into perspective, it's more - a lot more - than I've spent in total on repairs on all the vehicles I've owned since 1989 & that's at least half a million miles of motoring.

Have to agree with jrkitching on this. Even with the goodwill gesture (which won't have cost Fiat much, let's face it - you're probably just getting the parts at cost), it's a ridiculous amount of money. Are they replacing the gearbox as a matter of routine? If it doesn't actually need replacing (bearing in mind babbo_umbro's point) you'll be paying out on parts & labour unnecessarily.

One highlight, is that whatever price you pay, you are entitles to the full parts warranty on the replacements. Presumably that's 12 months.

Correct me if I'm wrong but on genuine parts it's 2 years

Thanks for comments. I will check on warranty of new parts. I was thinking that perhaps a warranty to protect myself against this happening in the future might be worthwhile, but if flywheel is regarded as wear and tear item I guess it wouldn't be.

Am still waiting for car to be repaired but while I am waiting it occurred to me that perhaps I could have the parts being replaced tested by someone to establish whether it was me driving badly or really the flywheel. Does anyone know where I could have this done?

west71 said:

Am still waiting for car to be repaired but while I am waiting it occurred to me that perhaps I could have the parts being replaced tested by someone to establish whether it was me driving badly or really the flywheel. Does anyone know where I could have this done?

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You could ask for the parts after the repair, make sure they know you want them before they start, or they might be 'in the skip'. You may not get them if Fiat deem them theirs due to their contribution.

If you get them, have a good look for the original manufacturer's name and contact them via their website. They might be helpful. Alternatively, do the AA or RAC still offer technical help? And are you a member?

Thanks for that. I have asked for the parts to be kept. I'm no longer a member of the AA or RAC, but will see what I can do.

Dealer still hasn't got the flywheel despite being promised it on a daily basis. Next to my car in the workshop is another panda with the same problem. Looking round on the various manufacturer forums(skoda, vw), this is a problem constantly being reported. I feel this is an issue eventually likely to become serious for manufacturers using this flywheel, which seems to be most of them. I had six cars prior to this one, all but one of which I kept for more than 7 years. Only one had to have a new clutch and this was after 100k miles. I think it's time for a campaign to get car manufacturers to re-engineer this flywheel.

I recently (14 days ago) bought a 2013 panda twin air 4x4 34k on the clock and the Mass fly wheel is failing. I say failing as when the car is cold the clutch is ok, but within a few gear changes, its hard to select or deselect gears. Fiats have quoted £5k to do the job, however its going back the the dealer to fix under warranty. Euro car parts due the flywheel for £380. Fiat recon sometimes the gearbox can get damaged too. Does not help as there are no workshop manuals for these now...

winslademike said:

I recently (14 days ago) bought a 2013 panda twin air 4x4 34k on the clock and the Mass fly wheel is failing. I say failing as when the car is cold the clutch is ok, but within a few gear changes, its hard to select or deselect gears. Fiats have quoted £5k to do the job, however its going back the the dealer to fix under warranty. Euro car parts due the flywheel for £380. Fiat recon sometimes the gearbox can get damaged too. Does not help as there are no workshop manuals for these now...

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Hello and welcome :wave:.

Yes, these can damage the gearbox when they fail. I'd bet money that any repair done under warranty will be the minimum necessary to ensure the car lasts for the remainder of whatever the warranty period is. After that, you'll be on your own.

If I'd bought this car from a dealer within the last 14 days, then I'd reject it and demand a full refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. If you've had it less than 30 days and it has developed a serious fault, there's no longer any requirement for the buyer to allow the seller the opportunity to repair it.

For more information on your consumer rights, read this.

EDIT: for some reason I couldn't see the OP post being nearly 12 months old and can't delete my post now I can. Whoops!

I really feel for you and this situation is not only a headache but is making your wallet hurt too!

While I think £2400 is a truly biblical amount of money for effectively a low mileage reasonably young car, I would say that if it's £900 more than just the Flywheel and Clutch, I would take the offer as it will give you extra peace of mind and if the current box ends up being damaged or life limited by the DMF failure....a few months down the line you might be looking at another massive wedge of cash to make it right if you haven't replaced the box.

In your shoes I would probably take the replacement offer and run the car until you have recouped enough value to move it on without your brain popping or run it until it dies altogether. Just my 2c worth. I hope all is resolved sooner rather than later for you!

Asa James said:

The guide for the release bearing gets chewed up by the flywheel failure. Seen it on a raft of MiTo twin airs. Parts list is bellhousing, input shaft seal, both driveshaft seals, clutch release arm plastic guides (top and bottom).

It takes around 50 mins to pull the box from a mito, takes longer in the panda due to the subframe design. If you know a decent engineer or machine shop, they may be able to manufacture and fit a new guide, but Fiat don't sell them, have to buy complete bellhousing and strip a rebuild the box.

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Dear Asa James,

I have exactly the same issue with my 0.9 Mito, the guide is chewed up by the plate, because of DMF's failure,,, as you can see in the pics. The workshop is advising to buy a used gearbox for about 600€, I am thinking of repairing the bellhousing, or maybe just leaving it as it is. Any suggestions? Thank you.