Update #2

Car how now been at the dealer's for 3 weeks. Most recently, they've carried out a "Phonic Wheel reset"... From what I can gather this is something to do with the crank angle sensor?

Anyway, according to the service manager, the car started fine and ran perfectly when left over night but cut out after about 2-3 seconds. They're now awaiting advice from 'FIAT technical' on what do to do next.

This is beyond ridiculous. I originally bought the Panda with the intent to keep it for a long time, but if this is going to be what ownership is like I might have to reconsider...

Bugga. At least they're still hanging in there but surely you're heading towards 'be given a new car' status - oh, hang on, FIAT in their wisdom don't import them any more... because they were too stupid to market them.:bang:

aussiepanda said:

Bugga. At least they're still hanging in there but surely you're heading towards 'be given a new car' status - oh, hang on, FIAT in their wisdom don't import them any more... because they were too stupid to market them.:bang:

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Yeah, it won't be another FIAT that I buy. I'll tell you that much. Holden make a pretty tasty looking turbo Barina...

I have also had some cold starting issues with mine. I also made sure it stayed over at the dealership so they could start it and hear it because it was EXACTLY as your video shows. It would be erratic and not happen everytime.

Came back with the problem unresolved. I started burrowing around the engine and found that the rubber glove type thingy that hold the air filter housing to the inlet manifold was not fitted properly and was sucking in air from everywhere except through the filter.

I then re-fitted it and put a hose clamp around it to keep in place because it would pop off at irregular intervals.

Since then my cold start problem is resolved - no thanks to Fiat.

series2a said:

I have also had some cold starting issues with mine. I also made sure it stayed over at the dealership so they could start it and hear it because it was EXACTLY as your video shows. It would be erratic and not happen everytime.

Came back with the problem unresolved. I started burrowing around the engine and found that the rubber glove type thingy that hold the air filter housing to the inlet manifold was not fitted properly and was sucking in air from everywhere except through the filter.

I then re-fitted it and put a hose clamp around it to keep in place because it would pop off at irregular intervals.

Since then my cold start problem is resolved - no thanks to Fiat.

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So why would that be so hard for a mechanic to spot and fix? Oh, that's right, the computer wouldn't spot it and tell the mechanic to do something MECHANICAL for a flamin' change :bang:

aussiepanda said:

So why would that be so hard for a mechanic to spot and fix? Oh, that's right, the computer wouldn't spot it and tell the mechanic to do something MECHANICAL for a flamin' change :bang:

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Those were precisely my thoughts too.

In my previous post I wrote about my Panda being at Fiat for over a month trying to sort out a misfire .. which they couldn't fathom for precisely those reasons. But.... wait for it. I have trouble starting my car in the morning the day after I get it home. Rest of the day it is fine. Next morning same story. I open the bonnet and 5 SECONDS later I see there is NO rubber housing from the air filter to the manifold!!!!!!!

Straight back to FIAT and wanted to say to the foreman look and see if you can spot anything strange. Thought the better of it because I didn't want to wait around the whole day.

aussiepanda said:

So why would that be so hard for a mechanic to spot and fix? Oh, that's right, the computer wouldn't spot it and tell the mechanic to do something MECHANICAL for a flamin' change :bang:

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No surprise, it seems quite common nowadays regardless of car brand.

Some years ago, my friend's BMW Series 5 had a problem with its engine and BMW dealer diagnosed it and told him that it needs a brand new engine costing several thousands of pounds.

Needless to say, he didn't go with it and eventually at his local garage, it turned out that there was a crack on manifold or something!

Update... What is this, update #3 ?

SUCCESS!

After 5 and a bit weeks, the Panda is now back in my custody. In the end, the service manager advised that the mysterious 'Phonic Wheel' needed to be completely reset. Apparently, the car's been behaving itself for the past 6 days... But tomorrow morning will be the real test.

Is anyone able to offer a bit of an explanation as to what this Phonic Wheel actually does? From what I can gather, it effects the ignition timing; but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Fekking hell. 5 weeks.

To be fair though, I had an issue with a BMW once. One of the wires would be pinched when the boot was closed, causing massive electrical issues. As soon as they opened everything up to check it, all appeared to be fine. Took them 3 weeks to pinpoint and repair the exact offending wire. Even though they fairly quickly figured out what it should be.


1.2 - are you mad?

Well, it seems I've spoken too soon. It did the exact same thing this morning.

Back to the dealer we go...

Drat

Tom95 said:

Well, it seems I've spoken too soon. It did the exact same thing this morning.

Back to the dealer we go...

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Take your cannon with you, you know, the one you didn't hand back when Johnny Howard asked for it.

One would have to wonder who's more frustrated, you or the mechanic tasked with finding a solution. Maybe, while you're there, have a chat with the sales staff and hit them for a very very generous trade in on something else. Maybe a Jeep

aussiepanda said:

Maybe, while you're there, have a chat with the sales staff and hit them for a very very generous trade in on something else. Maybe a Jeep

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Yeah, when pigs fly! I tell you, what ever I get next is gonna have nothing to do with FCA.

Here's an interesting little tidbit, not sure whether it's been bought up before... This morning I decided to stand outside the car when I started it. After a solid 7-10 seconds of cranking it eventually shuddered into 'life' and managed to chug away for a whole 15 seconds before knocking out.

In this time, I had a bit of a wander around the car and noticed smoke coming from the exhaust. It also smelt like it was running very rich. So, it seems as though this may be fuel related, rather than an ignition issue?

As a couple of previous posts mention, it may be something as simple as a cracked/disconnected vacuum hose. That still doesn't explain why it's perfect on the second go? I had a bit of a poke around yesterday and everything seemed intact, but that got me thinking... Is there anything vacuum-related that is electronically controlled? Or, for example, could there be an issue with the "drive by wire" throttle plate not opening correctly?

Apologies if not a lot of this makes sense, but I don't really have much experience with a vehicle with so much electronic crap.

Tom95 said:

In this time, I had a bit of a wander around the car and noticed smoke coming from the exhaust. It also smelt like it was running very rich. So, it seems as though this may be fuel related, rather than an ignition issue?

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My theory on this issue (which is often reported here) is that a slightly leaking injector is the most likely culprit. The fuel rail stays pressurised (or is supposed to stay pressurised) even when the ignition is turned off; so a leaking injector would allow fuel into the cylinder, which then gives you a rich cut next time you try to start it.

If you've got the tools, it might be worth monitoring what happens to fuel rail pressure when you turn the engine off.

Personally I don't think it's an ignition problem; although fitting better quality spark plugs is known to improve matters, this is most likely because the stronger spark is better at igniting the overrich mixture in the cylinder.

Thanks for the suggestion.

The workshop has already tested for leaking injectors; and they've been found to be A-OK.

Tom95 said:

Thanks for the suggestion.

The workshop has already tested for leaking injectors; and they've been found to be A-OK.

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Depends on how throughly they tested them; they could be A-OK on a short test, yet still leak enough overnight to cause a wet start in the morning. Also, paradoxically, any leak could get worse as the fuel rail pressure drops.

Here's another update (yep, this is still going on...)

On Fiat's advice, the dealer has taken the timing cover off and confirmed that the timing is spot on.

This is interesting, though: The car has been starting fine since they refilled the tank with 91-octane fuel! This is, again, on Fiat's advice even though the minimum grade for Australian cars is 95-octane.

And I'm wondering... The last time I filled the Panda up I used 98-octane rather than 95. I can't imagine that this in itself would cause the issues I've been having, but I'm starting to wonder if this is just due to a batch of bad fuel? Surely this would make the run like crap all the time and not just during a cold start.

Although, having said that, Twin Air cars seem to be quite picky about what fuel they like. Does the FIRE also have this 'disease'?

I can't say I've noticed this, I know it doesn't help but my Fire tends to run better at lower temp when running on 97-100 Ron, as does one of the twin air test rigs we have at work ? sorry I can't offer anything more on that one bud

Just a thought but years ago fiat diesel engines were a pig for starting. I found that the vavle clearence was non exsistant.Got clearence problem solved.

Good news!

After draining and refilling the tank the issue seems to be fixed. I can't believe that it took so long to diagnose something as simple as bad fuel...

FIAT have also advised that I'd best fill the car with 91-octane from now on! Not sure if I'll be doing that, though.