OP
OP
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At my work i have a expensive professional one, that is very accurate.
Pffft. Jammy bugger. At my work, we've got lots of books, the only vehicles get the slaves to the place of purgatory.
Technical Tyre rotation
- Thread starter aussiepanda
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Technical Tyre rotation
Pffft. Jammy bugger. At my work, we've got lots of books, the only vehicles get the slaves to the place of purgatory.
So my observation is that in the old days most cars were rear wheel drive. Driving an unloaded rear wheel drive van only highlights more the sense, then, of having good grip at the back. Reason being it is quite easy to over accelerate and whip the back out even at very slow speeds. Still need good grip at the front for braking and steering. With front wheel drive that is impossible and the better approach is favour drive, braking and steering. To the point that most of us could never spin the car with public road sensible driving. But all of us need to be able to stop and steer when braking on a wet and busy M6. The front does all the work in a front drive car. ABS and traction control will look after the back even if relatively bald.
Let me rephrase my statement.
I'm privileges enough to have, a expensive professional one at work, that is very accurate.
OP
OP
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Let me rephrase my statement.
I'm privileges enough to have, a expensive professional one at work, that is very accurate.
I preferred the implication from your first post that you were somehow privileged enough to have a full, professional tool kit at your sole disposal with unlimited time dedicated to the care and modification of your Panda :devil:
Actually, I lie, I thought no such thing, but it's a nice story
It's not illegal in the UK (unless there's some EU directive I haven't heard about yet), just best practice. Some tyre fitting stations will refuse to put new tyres on the front only (for liability reasons) - Costco being one - but they should then rotate the existing tyres to the front, if required, without charge (again, Costco will do this).
Whatever it says is the maximum inflation pressure on the sidewall.
You can always deflate it as required when the time comes to use it, and if you're driving as carefully as you should be on a space saver tyre, running at max pressure for a short distance won't kill you.
Finding it's well down on pressure when you need to use it is only going to make a bad experience worse.
Now here's another question - if you had a flat right now, and had to change it at the roadside using only what's in the car right now, how would you cope? Is there anything you could do in preparation to make the experience less unpleasant?
Having a few pairs of disposable gloves, and a waterproof bag large enough to put the existing road wheel in would be a good start. You could likely improve on the factory fit jack and wheel bolt removal tool. Throw in a couple of sealed wet wipes to clean yourself up with afterwards. I've also got a small plastic pot to put the wheel bolts in, so they don't roll down a nearby drain and get lost (it has happened). And although this is a statement of the b******g obvious, if you've got locking wheel bolts, make sure the key is kept in the car.
Plan on the basis of having to do this on a freezing cold night with a howling gale in pissing rain.
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For many years, especially when tyres were crossply, car manufacturers recommended moving the tyres around at each service to even out the wear. I never really understood the benefit, but one result is that all four need replacing at once. Some manufacturers had a rotation system including the spare, so all five wore out at the same time. Genius.
Many car manufacturers nowadays actually state not to move them around, although this may be to do with some tyres being directional and if attention is not paid they could be fitted to the wrong side of the car.
When new tyres are first used, the internal structure settles to the position and work it does. Think of when you fold the corner over on a piece of paper, you can never flatten it again as it takes on a 'set'. This happens to a certain extent with the tyre carcass. Driven and non-driven wheels 'set' differently.
Now, when you swap them around, they have to re-set themselves over a few hundred miles, during which time they run slightly hotter, so wear a little quicker. As well as wearing all of them evenly, you end up buying all four new together, and sooner.
I have two sets of wheels and tyres, summer and winter. All are marked so that they are fitted in their original positions. A new pair to the rear is still a good idea.
Many car manufacturers nowadays actually state not to move them around, although this may be to do with some tyres being directional and if attention is not paid they could be fitted to the wrong side of the car.
When new tyres are first used, the internal structure settles to the position and work it does. Think of when you fold the corner over on a piece of paper, you can never flatten it again as it takes on a 'set'. This happens to a certain extent with the tyre carcass. Driven and non-driven wheels 'set' differently.
Now, when you swap them around, they have to re-set themselves over a few hundred miles, during which time they run slightly hotter, so wear a little quicker. As well as wearing all of them evenly, you end up buying all four new together, and sooner.
I have two sets of wheels and tyres, summer and winter. All are marked so that they are fitted in their original positions. A new pair to the rear is still a good idea.
The modern habit of manufacturing cars with wheel bolts instead of studs is one of my pet hates, because it can be so awkward to get the wheel correctly lined up when fixing a puncture up on the dark night. A four inch length of steel rod, of a diameter that will slip into one of the bolt holes, makes it much simpler to align the wheel on the hub.
That's a great idea. From your answer it would appear that you've not had the need to remove wheels from your Fiat yet. You'll find that it has one or two small studs to locate the wheel, removing the need for your rod. These studs also hold the disc or drum to the hub.
Most Fiat's with wheel trims also have a clever larger bolt hole clockwise nearest the valve. You place the wheel onto the studs, insert that bolt finger tight, then on goes the wheeltrim. Then in go the other three bolts. Saves the struggle of juggling with wheel and trim together.
Best advice for anyone capable of changing their own wheels, rather than calling a breakdown service, is to have a practice on a warm dry day. Learning how on a wet windy night is not pleasant. Also this makes sure all wheel bolts are removable. Any too tight can be rectified in comfort.
Fiat's usual method of mounting the wheel and trim is one of their better bits of design - it's shame they used clip on trims for the steel wheeled 500's.
If you've fitted everything properly and torqued the bolts correctly, you'll be able to move the trim very slightly from side to side - the bolt holes in the trims give just enough clearance not to be compressed by the wheel bolts. If you're doing this under duress at the side of the road, you might want to leave the trim off & replace it properly when you have better working conditions.
Practicing wheel changing is a great idea, too. For added realism, park on the lawn & practice in the middle of a cold rainy winters night during a power cut using only what you have in the car.
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Had to do it last Wednesday on the Croma, front offside with slice in sidewall. Tyre was new in January
No real trouble changing it. spacesaver and tools had obviously never been used before. Tubular wrench much better the the typical ones with steel bar handles that bend. The jack handle is very close to ground so watch your knucles. Jack was a bit stiff but a quick squirt of spray lubricant made the effort much less. Don't know what did the tyre in, normal trip from work, nowhere near a curb and didn't notice hitting anything. About the 5th time in 30 years that I've had to do it by the roadside. Only had to call the AA once and that was a car new to me. it took both me and the AA guy on the end of a 4 foot bar to crack the nuts. I also carry a triangle and a reflective tabbard (check out the poundstore for a tabbard next time you are in, it could save your life).
I use a digital pressure gauge, even the low cost ones are more accurate than a small dial type.
Robert G8RPI.
Should have added previously that, in my experience, the only safe place to pull off the road and change a puncture may well be on a slope or on soft ground. I always carry a couple of wooden wheel chocks (one of them was supplied in the toolkitof a 2CV that I ran for a few years in the 1980s) and a small plank (approx 400x125x20mm) to put under the jack.
Having run a Panda Cross and a more recent Panda 4x4 MJ for a total of around 90k miles over fairly rugged terrain, and fitted wheels quite a number of times during those years (punctures, front-rear swaps, braking system maintenance, shock absorbers, drop links, etc), I do have relevant experienceof those models. (And of numerous light and heavy vehicles from different manufacturers, but not of any other Fiats).
What you have written applies to steel wheels. On most vehicles, steel wheels can be easily aligned on those two pegs because:
(1) the holes in the wheel are machined to be a fairly close fit over the pegs;
(2) the person fitting the wheel can see the pegs (through the holes);
(3) steel wheels are relatively thin, and the pegs usually protrude sufficiently to support the wheel while it is being pushed towards the hub.
None of the above applies to alloy wheels because:
(1) they do not normally have machined holes for location on the pegs, just a recess on the inner side of the casting;
(2) there are no “through holes”, so the person fitting the wheel cannot see the pegs.
(3) the recesses are large in relation to the peg diameter, and therefore do not support or align the wheel on the hub (even when the wheel is fully seated, it is not in contact with the pegs);
The Panda 4x4 alloy wheel has a large primary recess, and then a slightly tapered blind hole. Diameter of the blind hole is about double that of the peg, so there is not the nice neat location that would occur when fitting steel wheels. The depth of the primary recess is only about 1mm less than the width of the hub flange, and that is why the wheel butts up against the hub before the pegs can provide any support.
My picture isout of focus because it was grabbed from the background of a photo taken awhile ago for another purpose, but the shape and size of the recesses in the casting are visible.
