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Old 05-03-2016   #16
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
The rotation of the tires "here" means different Circumference of the tires.
With modern cars and there tire pressure systems, it could reed that two tires are less inflated, because it uses the ABS censors to measure Circumference.
Now tyre pressures ARE something I'm fanatical about... though not fanatical enough to use my own pressure gauge. Most service stations here use a pump where you set the pressure on the base station, hook up the hose and it sets your tyres to the 'right' pressure. I work on the principle that if I always use the same unit, I've a reasonable chance of getting consistent settings (consistently wrong probably, but consistent anyway). With the standard springs, I can feel when my tyres are even a couple of psi out.
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Old 05-03-2016   #17
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Re: Tyre rotation

I prefer one of these to inflate my tires.
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Old 05-03-2016   #18
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
I prefer one of these to inflate my tires.
I've got one of them too... but the plastic has broken off the face of the gauge and my compressor lives in the back of the shed behind the engine crane, the engine stand, the lawn mower and, for the moment, the Land Rover chassis

Mind you, the rotten thing's probably as inaccurate as the unit at the service station, mine was only a cheapie I got as part of the free kit I got with the compressor.

I used to use a pencil gauge with my first MGB, then a dial gauge. Can't use them these days with them stupid new preset systems unless you over inflate your tyre and then let it down to the right pressure.

What pressure do you put in your space saver spare? How often do you check it? (I know, the honest answer is 'not often enough' but...)
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Old 05-03-2016   #19
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Re: Tyre rotation

I had occasion to buy a couple of tyres in Switzerland a few years ago and they actually insisted that it would be illegal to put the new ones on the front.
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Old 05-03-2016   #20
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by aussiepanda View Post
I've got one of them too... but the plastic has broken off the face of the gauge and my compressor lives in the back of the shed behind the engine crane, the engine stand, the lawn mower and, for the moment, the Land Rover chassis

Mind you, the rotten thing's probably as inaccurate as the unit at the service station, mine was only a cheapie I got as part of the free kit I got with the compressor.

I used to use a pencil gauge with my first MGB, then a dial gauge. Can't use them these days with them stupid new preset systems unless you over inflate your tyre and then let it down to the right pressure.

What pressure do you put in your space saver spare? How often do you check it? (I know, the honest answer is 'not often enough' but...)
At my work i have a expensive professional one, that is very accurate.
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Old 05-03-2016   #21
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
At my work i have a expensive professional one, that is very accurate.
Pffft. Jammy bugger. At my work, we've got lots of books, the only vehicles get the slaves to the place of purgatory.
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Old 05-03-2016   #22
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Re: Tyre rotation

So my observation is that in the old days most cars were rear wheel drive. Driving an unloaded rear wheel drive van only highlights more the sense, then, of having good grip at the back. Reason being it is quite easy to over accelerate and whip the back out even at very slow speeds. Still need good grip at the front for braking and steering. With front wheel drive that is impossible and the better approach is favour drive, braking and steering. To the point that most of us could never spin the car with public road sensible driving. But all of us need to be able to stop and steer when braking on a wet and busy M6. The front does all the work in a front drive car. ABS and traction control will look after the back even if relatively bald.
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Old 05-03-2016   #23
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by aussiepanda View Post
Pffft. Jammy bugger. At my work, we've got lots of books, the only vehicles get the slaves to the place of purgatory.
Let me rephrase my statement.
I'm privileges enough to have, a expensive professional one at work, that is very accurate.
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Old 05-03-2016   #24
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
Let me rephrase my statement.
I'm privileges enough to have, a expensive professional one at work, that is very accurate.
I preferred the implication from your first post that you were somehow privileged enough to have a full, professional tool kit at your sole disposal with unlimited time dedicated to the care and modification of your Panda
Actually, I lie, I thought no such thing, but it's a nice story
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Old 05-03-2016   #25
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by babbo_umbro View Post
I had occasion to buy a couple of tyres in Switzerland a few years ago and they actually insisted that it would be illegal to put the new ones on the front.
It's not illegal in the UK (unless there's some EU directive I haven't heard about yet), just best practice. Some tyre fitting stations will refuse to put new tyres on the front only (for liability reasons) - Costco being one - but they should then rotate the existing tyres to the front, if required, without charge (again, Costco will do this).

Quote Originally Posted by aussiepanda View Post
What pressure do you put in your space saver spare?
Whatever it says is the maximum inflation pressure on the sidewall.

You can always deflate it as required when the time comes to use it, and if you're driving as carefully as you should be on a space saver tyre, running at max pressure for a short distance won't kill you.

Finding it's well down on pressure when you need to use it is only going to make a bad experience worse.

Now here's another question - if you had a flat right now, and had to change it at the roadside using only what's in the car right now, how would you cope? Is there anything you could do in preparation to make the experience less unpleasant?

Having a few pairs of disposable gloves, and a waterproof bag large enough to put the existing road wheel in would be a good start. You could likely improve on the factory fit jack and wheel bolt removal tool. Throw in a couple of sealed wet wipes to clean yourself up with afterwards. I've also got a small plastic pot to put the wheel bolts in, so they don't roll down a nearby drain and get lost (it has happened). And although this is a statement of the b******g obvious, if you've got locking wheel bolts, make sure the key is kept in the car.

Plan on the basis of having to do this on a freezing cold night with a howling gale in pissing rain.
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Old 06-03-2016   #26
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Re: Tyre rotation

For many years, especially when tyres were crossply, car manufacturers recommended moving the tyres around at each service to even out the wear. I never really understood the benefit, but one result is that all four need replacing at once. Some manufacturers had a rotation system including the spare, so all five wore out at the same time. Genius.

Many car manufacturers nowadays actually state not to move them around, although this may be to do with some tyres being directional and if attention is not paid they could be fitted to the wrong side of the car.

When new tyres are first used, the internal structure settles to the position and work it does. Think of when you fold the corner over on a piece of paper, you can never flatten it again as it takes on a 'set'. This happens to a certain extent with the tyre carcass. Driven and non-driven wheels 'set' differently.

Now, when you swap them around, they have to re-set themselves over a few hundred miles, during which time they run slightly hotter, so wear a little quicker. As well as wearing all of them evenly, you end up buying all four new together, and sooner.

I have two sets of wheels and tyres, summer and winter. All are marked so that they are fitted in their original positions. A new pair to the rear is still a good idea.
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Old 06-03-2016   #27
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
Now here's another question - if you had a flat right now, and had to change it at the roadside using only what's in the car right now, how would you cope? Is there anything you could do in preparation to make the experience less unpleasant?.
The modern habit of manufacturing cars with wheel bolts instead of studs is one of my pet hates, because it can be so awkward to get the wheel correctly lined up when fixing a puncture up on the dark night. A four inch length of steel rod, of a diameter that will slip into one of the bolt holes, makes it much simpler to align the wheel on the hub.
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Old 06-03-2016   #28
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by Jabe View Post
The modern habit of manufacturing cars with wheel bolts instead of studs is one of my pet hates, because it can be so awkward to get the wheel correctly lined up when fixing a puncture up on the dark night. A four inch length of steel rod, of a diameter that will slip into one of the bolt holes, makes it much simpler to align the wheel on the hub.
That's a great idea. From your answer it would appear that you've not had the need to remove wheels from your Fiat yet. You'll find that it has one or two small studs to locate the wheel, removing the need for your rod. These studs also hold the disc or drum to the hub.

Most Fiat's with wheel trims also have a clever larger bolt hole clockwise nearest the valve. You place the wheel onto the studs, insert that bolt finger tight, then on goes the wheeltrim. Then in go the other three bolts. Saves the struggle of juggling with wheel and trim together.

Best advice for anyone capable of changing their own wheels, rather than calling a breakdown service, is to have a practice on a warm dry day. Learning how on a wet windy night is not pleasant. Also this makes sure all wheel bolts are removable. Any too tight can be rectified in comfort.
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Old 06-03-2016   #29
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
That's a great idea. From your answer it would appear that you've not had the need to remove wheels from your Fiat yet. You'll find that it has one or two small studs to locate the wheel, removing the need for your rod. These studs also hold the disc or drum to the hub.

Most Fiat's with wheel trims also have a clever larger bolt hole clockwise nearest the valve. You place the wheel onto the studs, insert that bolt finger tight, then on goes the wheeltrim. Then in go the other three bolts. Saves the struggle of juggling with wheel and trim together.
Fiat's usual method of mounting the wheel and trim is one of their better bits of design - it's shame they used clip on trims for the steel wheeled 500's.

If you've fitted everything properly and torqued the bolts correctly, you'll be able to move the trim very slightly from side to side - the bolt holes in the trims give just enough clearance not to be compressed by the wheel bolts. If you're doing this under duress at the side of the road, you might want to leave the trim off & replace it properly when you have better working conditions.

Practicing wheel changing is a great idea, too. For added realism, park on the lawn & practice in the middle of a cold rainy winters night during a power cut using only what you have in the car.
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Old 06-03-2016   #30
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Re: Tyre rotation

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
Now here's another question - if you had a flat right now, and had to change it at the roadside using only what's in the car right now, how would you cope? Is there anything you could do in preparation to make the experience less unpleasant?
Had to do it last Wednesday on the Croma, front offside with slice in sidewall. Tyre was new in January.
No real trouble changing it. spacesaver and tools had obviously never been used before. Tubular wrench much better the the typical ones with steel bar handles that bend. The jack handle is very close to ground so watch your knucles. Jack was a bit stiff but a quick squirt of spray lubricant made the effort much less. Don't know what did the tyre in, normal trip from work, nowhere near a curb and didn't notice hitting anything. About the 5th time in 30 years that I've had to do it by the roadside. Only had to call the AA once and that was a car new to me. it took both me and the AA guy on the end of a 4 foot bar to crack the nuts. I also carry a triangle and a reflective tabbard (check out the poundstore for a tabbard next time you are in, it could save your life).
I use a digital pressure gauge, even the low cost ones are more accurate than a small dial type.

Robert G8RPI.
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