Technical short changed new order?

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Technical short changed new order?

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Feb 21, 2010
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Wassenaar
Hi All, I'm hoping for some help. We have just taken delivery of a new Cross, with every whistle and bell fitted. However having taken delivery, the 15"smoked alloys with M&S tyres are smoked with continental eco tyres on them with no signs whatsoever of the M&S?!?!? so have we been short changed or do we indeed have M&S tyres fitted but it's just not obvious?!?! shall i make a big deal of it. Having paid £300 for the option i'm feeling a bit deceived.

Any help much appreciated
 
That's a real puzzle. The Cross is supposed to come with M&S tyres as standard!

So were your alloys a £300 extra? I thought all Cross's came with 15" smoked alloys? I can't remember what mine are supposed to be, and they are now far too muddy for me to check :D

Edit: Phantom3D had a similar problem with the tyres on his Cross in (iirc) Norway. See this thread:
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/420205-just-ordered-black-panda-cross-2.html
 
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Yes they were an option on the configurator at the time. Now the configurator has changed and it's simply confusing. check it out. So what make are the M&S tyres?
 
So what make are the M&S tyres?

The standard tyres on the Cross are Goodyear Vector 4Season, as these are available in a 185/65 section. The 'ordinary' 4x4s come as standard with Continental Cross Contacts, in a 175/65 section.

If they've fitted 175/65 tyres to your rims, they've downgraded the standard Cross spec, but charged you £300 for the privilege! It would be interesting to know whether the same optional alloys are available on both the 4x4 and the Cross, in which case the explanation is likely to be that they are supplied to Fiat dealers pre-fitted with 175/65 tyres, for fitting to both the 4x4 and the Cross.
 
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Have you been short changed? Well, yes, and no...

The 'basic' wheels on the Cross are 'off road' wheels, that are unique to the Cross and come with all season Goodyear Vector tyres, 185/65 R15 size.

You have spec'd the £300 option to fit '15" smoked alloys' - which are what the 4x4 and Trekking come with anyway. Adding this option also brings you smaller tyres (175/65 r15). In passing. this also reduces your offroad ground clearance by 6mm (to be the same as the 4x4 -- the 'extra' 6mm the Cross is quoted as having is entirely due to its standard tyres being slightly taller than those on the 4x4). So, your 'extra cost' option arguably delivers less than the standard wheels would have done

However, those wheels should have come with "Continental CrossContact Winter" tyres on them. Proper, winter tyres, not 'all seasons'., which should be better in snow. So yes, you should question the 'Eco' tyres. [later edit - see below...]

Here's the options as shown on Fiat configurator, which clearly states that the extra cost wheels come with smaller tyres, but does say 'M+S' tyres... and the tyres should look like this: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/tyres/Continental-ContiCrossContact-Winter.jpg

[later..] But look at what happens if you select that option! The Configurator then throws up a box saying those wheels have to be fitted with 'Alternative Summer Tyres' at no extra cost! Why would they do that?! £300 option to fit the 'standard' 4x4 wheels and wrong tyres, making the car much less capable. Very odd (screenshot of this in second post as can't add here)
 

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Same thing happent to me. In norway we have no configurator, and the tiresize along with other things on the cross is not listed. After witing 6 months for the car it had silver rims with eco tires when i went to pick it up. I said that this is not the right rims or tires for the cross.i showed them every test i could find of the cross, they all had ms tires. So after another monrh i got 195/65-15 alpine 5 tires on the right rims. Free of charge.
 
Herts hillhopper has hit the nail on the head.

Selecting the £300 alloy upgrade does indeed give you the standard 4x4 alloys with the smaller tyres.
Hardly an upgrade and in my mind should be a no cost option.
As for which tyres on that option, maybe the option is more suited to warmer countries where it never gets below 7°C ?

The configurator should be fixed to say summer Eco tyres when selecting the optional wheels, not say mud and snow, then pop up a box saying Eco tyres.
I wouldn't hold my breath on that ever changing though, the finance calculator has been broken for weeks now too. It's a poor show!

If you have been delivered the standard 4x4 wheels with Conti crosscontact winter then I'd maybe try and argue that you have ben given not what you should have. They may just offer you a set of Eco summer tyres though which I'm pretty sure is not what you'd want?
 
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Thanks so much all for the amazing responses. Herts Hillhopper you are a legend! I'm going to compile a response back to my fiat garage and hope that they comply. One very important thing to note, the configurator was only updated about 5-6weeks ago to now reflect that if you choose the smoked alloys you have to tick the box to get worse tyres! when we placed the order this box didn't exist, and fortunately our print out of the spec states M&S tyres.

Wish me luck, i'm sure i'll need it in what's going to be a Loooooooong battle.

Thanks again all
 
If your print-out says M&S, you can insist on M&S tyres, no question.

I agree with the other folks on here that it does seem incredibly opportunistic of Fiat to charge an extra £300 for lower spec rims, but if the configurator clearly stated that these would be fitted with 175/65s, you are probably stuck with the narrower tyres - although they jolly well should be changed for M&S ones, as that's what your specification contains.

The new pop-up box on the configurator, asking buyers to agree to "alternative summer tyres", is in direct conflict with the instruction directly above it, which says "to add the optional 15" smoked off-road alloy wheels with 175/65 R15 M&S tyres", you must add..." That's a very misleading provision, and open to challenge under the consumer protection unfair terms legislation.

I wonder where the 'upgraded' wheels/tyres are fitted? This type of upgrade is often done at the UK import depot, or even at the dealers, rather than at the factory. If that's the case, you might be able to get your wheels/tyres swapped over for the standard-fit Cross ones, but good luck with getting your £300 back!
 
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I recently tried to get two new front tyres for my 4x4 - the Conti CrossContact Winters in 175/65R15. Eventually, having failed to find any available through the various wholesalers, the tyre place I go to got right through to Continental in Germany who said they had none, and wouldn't have for at least six months. I wonder if this is why Fiat changed the configurator?

I did track two down from Camskill in Cumbria and they are here now, waiting fitting.

The 'standard' 4x4 smoked alloys are, I believe the same size as the wheels normally on the Cross, so in theory can be fitted with the 185/65R15 tyres the Cross uses. This opens up more choice, especially in the 'all season' ranges. The Goodyears fitted as standard to the Cross are very good. Finland's Nokian Tyres have also brought out an all season tyre, called Weatherproof, that has done very well in this year's rounds of winter tyres tests. (This also makes me wonder if the 'standard' 4x4 can be fitted with these ever so slightly bigger tyres?)
 
No reason why the standard 4x4 shouldn't also run on 185/65s, then. The Goodyear Vectors on the Cross are great in use (so far! - I've not had a chance to test them in snow yet, apart from last weekend's sprinkling, but they are v good on mud, and are fine for everyday road use) and the reviews of them have been very positive.

If they've run out of the Conti Winters, I wonder what they are now fitting as standard to the 4x4/Trekking? Not summer tyres, surely?!
 
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...We have been told that M&S tyres have M&S written on them.
'M+S' on a tyre is no longer recognised in Europe to mean a winter tyre.

In many European countries, you have, by law, to run on winter tyres at certain times of year. The mark that shows that tyres are good enough is the '3 peak and mountain snowflake' (3PMSF) symbol on them. This confirms that the rubber remains grippy when cold (below 7C) and that the tread allows grip in snow. A 3PMSF tyre might not necessary be good in mud -- the fine 'sipes' (the thin wiggly cuts in the tread) that give snow and ice grip tend to clog in mud. The 'CrossContact' bit of the Continental tyres name references its off road , mud-plugging intention, summer or winter.

This nicely explains all: http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/winter-tyres-don-t-rely-on-the-m-s-mark
 
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I recently tried to get two new front tyres for my 4x4 - the Conti CrossContact Winters in 175/65R15. Eventually, having failed to find any available through the various wholesalers, the tyre place I go to got right through to Continental in Germany who said they had none, and wouldn't have for at least six months. I wonder if this is why Fiat changed the configurator?

I did track two down from Camskill in Cumbria and they are here now, waiting fitting.

MyTyres claim to have the Continental CrossContact in the correct size, in case you are still looking. Plenty of life in our CrossContacts after just 9k, even allowing for the extra depth required on M&S tyres to remain effective in the snow etc.
 
MyTyres claim to have the Continental CrossContact in the correct size, in case you are still looking. Plenty of life in our CrossContacts after just 9k, even allowing for the extra depth required on M&S tyres to remain effective in the snow etc.
Thanks, yes, saw that... but already had from Camskill by then (similar price)
My 4x4 is at 25000 miles and tyre wear is good - rears still have 6mm tread, but fronts down to 3mm. For snow (and anywhere in Europe where you need winter tyres) minimum depth is 4mm, so replacing the fronts.
 
Thanks so much all for the amazing responses. Herts Hillhopper you are a legend! I'm going to compile a response back to my fiat garage and hope that they comply. One very important thing to note, the configurator was only updated about 5-6weeks ago to now reflect that if you choose the smoked alloys you have to tick the box to get worse tyres! when we placed the order this box didn't exist, and fortunately our print out of the spec states M&S tyres.

Wish me luck, i'm sure i'll need it in what's going to be a Loooooooong battle.

Thanks again all

Before you dive in with the dealer, if you do have the conti crosscontact winter as per standard 4x4, then they are marked mud and snow.

Take a look on the sidewall. You should find this marking.


this is the mud and snow mark.
 
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