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Old 08-11-2015   #1
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2012+ panda multijet 1.3D tuning

Hi folks,

I'm considering trying a tuning box in my car. They say it'll take it from 75 to 90 bhp, increase torque and mpg also.

From eBay they are about 80-100.

If anyone has any experience of these types of system could you tell your story so i can decide if it's worth it?

Brian A.
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Old 09-11-2015   #2
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Re: 2012+ panda multijet 1.3D tuning

I've had some experience of these tuning boxes and they've all generally ended up with the thing back in the box, slung in the shed.

They are pretty crude with the way they work, altering the fuel rail pressure signal to fool the ECU into fueling differently, usually by lowering the pressure signal which opens the IMV further, thus increasing rail pressure and causing a fatter injection.

Some of the more slick ones will also alter the MAF signal, again fooling the ECU to fuel differently.

Most will tell you they do work, and they usually do for a while, but I've found they generally push the fueling system a little too far (they tend to utilise tolorences built in to compensate for wear) and can cause excess leak off from the injectors (something which the trip computer uses to work out mpg, that's why is apprear to increase) and IMV's to complain they can no open far enough so no longer cope.

Another problem is because they do increase the torque, drivechains can suffer, paricularly clutches.
Plenty have fitted them to turbo diesels only for the clutch to start slipping fairly quickly and DMF's start wobbling, the initial spike of torque TD's go through is very high already, adding to it only leads to reduced life.

It's probably wise to just buy a more powerful car that's been built to handle the power.
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Old 09-11-2015   #3
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Re: 2012+ panda multijet 1.3D tuning

Thanks for getting back to me! I realise what you're saying but will 15bhp and less than 30Nm of torque really have that much of an increase wear on the car?

Currently it's capable of towing a 900kg braked trailer so the drivetrain should be able to handle a bit more power I'd say.

Or do your experiences come from people who floor the car constantly after putting the box in? I'm more interested in the fuel savings from being able to be in higher gears compared to just now.

How do tuning boxes affect the car when it goes for a MOT?

Thanks!
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Old 09-11-2015   #4
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Re: 2012+ panda multijet 1.3D tuning

The drivechain is probably the limiting factor, someone on here has suffered clutch slip with one of these tuning boxes in the past, a search should result in a bit of interesting reading.

Also a bit of research around the web might result in a more general view of these products, particularly the Corsa forums, the 1.3 CDTi is actually Fiats 1.3 MJ engine.

There's also got to be a reason this engine gearbox combo never seems to top 200nm torque.
No matter what it's in and what bhp it makes, they never seem to top 200nm with it.
75ps has 190nm and the 85 and 95ps have 200nm.

Now I don't know what the 'box is rated too, but I'll have a stab at it being around 200nm!

The same can be said of the TA's, both the 85 and 105's both surprisingly make the same torque and it's not by mistake.

My guess is the 'box won't take much more, it wouldn't likely be a specific 'box beefed up for a diesel, but a box from a petrol model, re geared.

There shouldn't be a problem with the MOT as long as it passes the smoke test.
Insurance on the other hand might be a stumbling point, do you risk not declaring it?
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Last edited by Goudrons; 09-11-2015 at 17:42.
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Old 09-11-2015   #5
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Re: 2012+ panda multijet 1.3D tuning

With these devices, my first thought is always "if extra power and/or economy were so readily available, why can a low-budget after-market supplier offer this, when the original manufacturer, with all their millions in development costs, chose not to...."
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Old 09-11-2015   #6
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Re: 2012+ panda multijet 1.3D tuning

I have also wondered this! Think I might just leave it alone...... I'm too scared to break it haha.

Other stories still welcome :-)
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Old 10-11-2015   #7
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Re: 2012+ panda multijet 1.3D tuning

It also has a lot to do with the tolerances built into the original engineering. As stated above, the clutch and gearbox probably has a load limit near 200Nm of torque. The newer Euro 6 engines, however, have been rated at higher power outputs with the same torque figure. All that probably means, however, is that it will still make the maximum allowed torque through a specific rev range (say, 2k to 3.8k as per most small displacement turbocharged diesels) after which the torque curve begins to drop.

Here's the maths bit though. Since power is a function of multiplying force by distance, the same engine will create more power at, say a 4.5k rpm redline if the torque curve drops off less at the top of the rev range without exceeding the maximum 200Nm torque of the running gear. The way manufacturers manage to increase power over generations of the same engine would be to carefully engineer new engine management profiles that would allow for the above scenario (utilizing new injection, ignition and intake/exhaust profiles). This is also the approach taken by reputable tuning companies when they offer extensive tuning for performance purposes, which is also why taking, say an already high-performance sports car to a reputable tuning company for a simple ECU flash costs a great deal of money.

Odds are, however, chip boxes alter engine variables such as injection and boost without taking into account the consequences of when and where the added power comes from, possibly pushing the running gear beyond the design limits. The same can be said for "cheap" ECU flashes. One approach is taking into account the vehicle as a whole system, whereas the other is simply optimizing certain components and values for maximum output without taking into account the impact of all the other variables.

Coming back to the tolerances I started out this post with, as can be seen by the increase in power but not torque in the newer engines, there are still tolerances involved where more power can be extracted from the engine, but it seems the drivetrain tolerances have been met. A good example of such tolerances and how they are met involve Nissan's legendary Skyline series. The RB26DETT straight six engine from the 90's onward and especially in the R34 generation was massively overengineered, allowing for tuners to extract over 500hp with no significant modification to the core engine bits, and over 1000 with a good investment. The gearbox and AWD system was also massively overengineered and was capable of handling the immense power without modification. Come to the R35 generation, however, and "launching" the car too many times would cause massive damage to the dual clutch transmission, also voiding the warranty. The debacle was great enough that there's a whole business around building strengthened R35 Skyline gearboxes, even for the stock, untuned engine.

Edit: It seems all small Fiats with the 1.3 Multijet series get the C150 transmission, which is rated to a maximum torque input of 210Nm. On the petrol side, the only gearbox rated for over 200Nm of torque input appears to be the Abarth gearbox (C510).
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Last edited by oyumurtaci; 10-11-2015 at 13:05.
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Old 12-11-2015   #8
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Re: 2012+ panda multijet 1.3D tuning

Hi,
If you need any help with insurance for a vehicle with a tuning box then please feel free to drop me a line. I'd be only too pleased to help out.
Regards,
Dan.
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