gar074 said:

Compared to the Prince engine in the older BMW Minis and in sundry Citroens & Peugeots (eg the DS3 1.6 THP), and some of the direct injection VW engines, the TA seems to be a paragon of reliability up to now. But common sense tells you that their complexity, coupled with the irresistible temptation to rev the nuts off them, will result in problems further down the line. Time will tell. I'll stop worrying when there are loads of problem-free examples with 100k+ on them. In the meantime, as Mercky says, keep a careful eye on the oil level, and always let it warm up properly before you get frisky with the accelerator.

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I cannot recall where I read that driving it like a diesel is ok for mpg and the engine seems to cope with this, although not very exciting....

Thanks for this reassurance. If the engine manages 100k that is ok! I had a Citroen C4 1.6 diesel, a frugal car except at 96000 the turbo blew, this was replaced at some expense only for the replacement to blow after 2 weeks (a warranty job) and as I drove that to go buy the Doblo a week after that fix I swear the turbo was going to blow again! I was told this was not unusual for Citroen turbos as they were less easy to fix than others like Fiat and Ford et al......so 100k on a small petrol engine is fine by me!

Delivery of the Cross moved 2 weeks sooner to early January......

I have heard from the dealer that my Red Cross TA is at Portbury. He asked if I wanted it before Christmas as he could do it but would be tight on timing....well, I would like it but as I live 140 miles from the dealer and I am keeping the excellent Doblo for now I have to arrange a collection and drive back to mid Wales with a friend or my son. Co-ordinating this is impossible until after the Christmas break. So, it's a need for delayed gratification time! Given the current weather maybe I should have ordered a boat instead! As a kid I was taken out on the River Thames at Old Windsor in an amphibious car which was weird but there might be more demand for such these days! Of course, the Cross is a bit of a wader so that should be helpful as some of my local roads are under 30cms of water....

Meanwhile, I keep looking at larger 4x4s and think how monstrous they are - such a lot of metal to haul around with big lumps of engine. I am convincing myself as I wait that "small is beautiful" and the tiny TA engine a masterpiece of wizardry (fingers crossed at this!) and looking forward to developing my driving style to suit....

I have gone from a string of 4x4s such as Shoguns, Range Rover, Discovery - my last was a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Got the Panda 4x4 as a weekday car intending to keep the jeep for my deerstalking etc but sold it after a few months - the Panda with rear seats out, and a sheet of plywood inside does all I need of it. And at a third of the price in fuel !!

theshootist said:

I have gone from a string of 4x4s such as Shoguns, Range Rover, Discovery - my last was a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Got the Panda 4x4 as a weekday car intending to keep the jeep for my deerstalking etc but sold it after a few months - the Panda with rear seats out, and a sheet of plywood inside does all I need of it. And at a third of the price in fuel !!

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Wow! That sounds quite a life! Meanwhile I've sources a rear cover that covers the entire back of the car and boot (trunk)! I think I'm going to be using it as a two seater most of the time..dog and stuff in the rear, behind dark glass!

Have you got a link for the cover? It sounds exactly what I need.

gar074 said:

Have you got a link for the cover? It sounds exactly what I need.

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This is what I'm looking at...

http://rhinoukbootlinersltd.co.uk/fiat-two-part-liners-2203-p.asp

theshootist said:

I have gone from a string of 4x4s such as Shoguns, Range Rover, Discovery - my last was a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Got the Panda 4x4 as a weekday car intending to keep the jeep for my deerstalking etc but sold it after a few months - the Panda with rear seats out, and a sheet of plywood inside does all I need of it. And at a third of the price in fuel !!

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Years back, 14 years ago I think, I had a Discovery, drove it down through Italy to and around Greece, several times to southern France etc. It did a great job getting us to out of reach beaches etc, blowing its air con near Naples (not so good) yet always it felt a bit agricultural and a big lump. Do we need such big cars? The Doblo is pretty big, a van with seats really. But I see these huge things that look like tanks with BMW and Audi badges and that cost £50k + . The Panda is titchy. It's costing me under £13k. It seems like a better deal!

To all those 4x4 owners waiting for our annual week (or so) of snow, the autumn looks set to blend straight into spring and summer! Meteorological predictions for next year are also suggesting another very warm year. 4x4 may prove to be excessive and unnecessary!

But with all this rain, I'm taking mine up and down a farm track that increasingly resembles the Somme, so the extra grip and ground clearance are very welcome!

As mentioned, it's not just snow that can cause issues. This is what we were having to contend with last year;



I just feel for those poor people having flood problems, which are far worse, up in the Lake District.

I have been thinking about the increased rainfall - I think this demands higher wading depth as opposed to 4 wheels driving with all the added complexity, weight and fuel consumption that comes with 4x4. I'm not having a dig here - I own a lovely Climbing 4x4, but with milder winters forecast I am increasingly questioning whether I will replace the climbing with another 4x4.

Peter Rawlings said:

Meanwhile, I keep looking at larger 4x4s and think how monstrous they are - such a lot of metal to haul around with big lumps of engine. I am convincing myself as I wait that "small is beautiful" and the tiny TA engine a masterpiece of wizardry (fingers crossed at this!) and looking forward to developing my driving style to suit....

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There is some very pricey metal there and not one I’d swap for my Panda 4x4 TA that cost less than £13,500.

And most of those are only 2wd...

My Doblo slipped and got stuck on the track for the first time today. All this wet. It probably would have been OK with proper winter tyres on though. I had to slide down the track a bit and give it extra welly to get past the slippy bit. I think the Cross would have taken it in its stride easily....

ambient white said:

There is some very pricey metal there and not one I’d swap for my Panda 4x4 TA that cost less than £13,500.

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I see that BMW are about to launch an all electric 4x4 with apparently decent range. I only saw the headlines and not the article so am unsure about the details. If I could afford one (probably in the £50k + range) I would be tempted but I'm getting my wee Cross with winter pack, spare wheel and tinted windows (I think I should have specified the comfort pack to....) for under £13k - a deal as Fiat helped because I work for the NHS! Thankyou Fiat!

Peter Rawlings said:

This is what I'm looking at...

http://rhinoukbootlinersltd.co.uk/fiat-two-part-liners-2203-p.asp

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I've taken another look at this and there are much cheaper versions on EBay!