Register Login
endrop - for all your online needs
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 30-06-2015   #1
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Beccles, Suffolk
Posts: 2,328
Thanks: 196
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Surprisingly, it got one star less than the standard Panda! It was marked down for, amongst other things, lack of standard safety assist tech. It also "failed to impress in Euro NCAP’s latest full width crash test”.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...uro-ncap-tests

The full test is here:

http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/f...da-cross/20644

Apparently, having 4wd doesn't count as "safety assistance".

But an "autonomous emergency brake system" that stops numpties from ploughing into the car in front while they are texting is now essential kit if you want 5*. Oh, and a "speed limitation system", for those who can't be bothered to look at their speedometers!

I tend to look where I'm going when I'm driving, so I know which standard safety assistance feature I'd rather have! Problem is, Euro NCAP's scoring system doesn't contain a box to tick for 4wd, so the Cross gets no marks for having it. Crazy.

The poor showing in the new crash test is disappointing, to say the least. The section in the report on adult occupants makes for sobering reading:

"The passenger compartment remained stable in the frontal offset test. Examination of the dummy readings and the high-speed films revealed that the head had made contact, through the deflating airbag, with the steering wheel. A penalty was applied and the driver's head protection was rated as adequate. At around the same time during the impact, with insufficient gas in the airbag, the chest contacted the rim of the steering wheel and, combined with dummy readings for chest compression, its protection was rated as weak. Dummy readings indicated good protection of the knees and femurs of the driver and front passenger. Fiat showed that a similar level of protection would be provided to occupants of different sizes and to those sat in different positions. In the full-width rigid barrier test, protection of the driver's chest was marginal, despite the standard-fit seatbelt pretensioners and load-limiters. Without these, protection of the rear seat occupant was rated as poor for the head and the chest, and weak for the neck. In the side impact barrier test, the Panda Cross scored maximum points with good protection of all body areas. In the more severe side pole test, protection of all body areas was good except the chest, protection of which was adequate. Dynamic tests and geometric assessments indicated marginal protection against whiplash injuries for the front and rear seat occupants."
__________________
Barchetta LE (no 2468), 1998, Silver with Red Hood and Red Leather Interior, Hardtop, Wind-stop, Novitec SS Exhaust
Panda Cross Twinair, 15 Reg, in glorious Yellow , replacing a much-loved yellow DS3 DSport THP

Last edited by gar074; 30-06-2015 at 08:43.
gar074 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 30-06-2015   #2
Speed Reader of the Year!
 
Most Easterly Pandas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,314
Thanks: 1231
Trader Rating: 2
Most Easterly Pandas has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

I find with most euroncap stuff now you take the stars with a pinch of salt and look at the scores that matter, IE the actual scores regarding how it performs in an accident.

Like you safety assist doesn't matter much IMO as I tend to try not to need it, and just want to know how the car does if it does all go wrong.
__________________
Most Easterly Panda's - Panda'ing in East Anglia
Stockest of mk2 Panda Parts, PM for any parts requests
1993 Classic Panda Selecta, 1989 Panda 750L,
2015 Kia Soul EV, 2009 Panda Eleganza & 2005 Panda Climbing 4x4 (LPG)
Most Easterly Pandas is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 30-06-2015   #3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Beccles, Suffolk
Posts: 2,328
Thanks: 196
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
I find with most euroncap stuff now you take the stars with a pinch of salt and look at the scores that matter, IE the actual scores regarding how it performs in an accident.
I agree ... but a raw score of only 70 for Adult Occupant compares unfavourably with the other vehicles (including some smaller ones like the new Mazda 2) that have been tested under the new "full frontal" criterion.

Interestingly, when assessed under the old "offset frontal" test in 2011, the Panda scored 82 - a better raw score, but still a long way off being class-leading.

It will be interesting to see how other small cars fare when tested under the new standards. The frustrating thing is that it's far cheaper for manufacturers to improve their scores by fitting electronic gizmos like speed limiters than it is to address inherent weaknesses in the safety cell. I bet you that the Panda will now soon be getting cruise control - with speed limiter - and emergency braking as standard, because that's an easy 6 points which might well gain the Panda an extra star overall - and 4* looks much more reassuring to safety-conscious punters than 3*.

"Could try harder" would be this year's School Report for Fiat on safety, I reckon.
__________________
Barchetta LE (no 2468), 1998, Silver with Red Hood and Red Leather Interior, Hardtop, Wind-stop, Novitec SS Exhaust
Panda Cross Twinair, 15 Reg, in glorious Yellow , replacing a much-loved yellow DS3 DSport THP

Last edited by gar074; 30-06-2015 at 13:17.
gar074 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 30-06-2015   #4
Small Fiat Fanatic
 
Squadrone Rosso's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nr.Neath & Swansea, Wales
Posts: 1,269
Thanks: 82
Trader Rating: 0
Squadrone Rosso has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Makes no sense.

The standard Panda only got 4 stars because it lacked ESC.

The Cross gets ESC etc + permanent 4WD yet it drops a star.

The test has been tightened up then and as a robotic right foot & eyes aren't included as standard, it drops two stars now.

On the plus side, occupant safety is pretty good. It's pedestrian friendly too.
__________________
Simon
Green Fiat Panda Cross TA ~ Red Seicento Abarth ~ Red Alfa Romeo Spider Series 4 ~ Silver/Black Toyota C-HR Hybrid
Squadrone Rosso is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 01-07-2015   #5
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 182
Thanks: 31
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Car structure is far better now, we had a Seicento and its deformation structure was very poor, it makes one careful but doesn't account for the tank that's coming straight for you. With today's technology new cars mostly can tell you how you are driving, this information should be sent direct to your insurers! On our Ford we have a display that can come up with 'Eco Champion' or 'Advanced Eco Champion' messages, it also tells you to slow down if this will improve your fuel consumption. Another feature is that it informs the emergency services if the airbags are deployed, giving your location. At one time that could be embarrassing.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

David Bliss is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-07-2015   #6
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 2,406
Thanks: 206
Trader Rating: 0
JTD_Liam has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

The Panda Cross is no less safe than the regular Panda, it's just that Euro NCAP have moved goalposts. Whilst I'm glad they've toughened up the rules as it was getting silly seeing everything given 5 stars, it's a bit of a double edged sword.

The Fiat 500 for example shows 5 stars, the Panda 4 stars and the Panda Cross 3 stars. To some people this will prove a distinct disadvantage for the Panda (especially the Cross). However in reality if the 500 were tested now it'd probably only get 4 stars itself (the 500X got 4 stars under the new regime).

It also should be noted that other cars awarded 4 stars at the time of the regular Panda may also be reduced to 3 stars if tested now, so people must look deeper than just the headline star rating
Thanks triumph7 thanked for this post
__________________
2003-2005 - 1996 Punto 75SX 5 Door -- 2004-2008 - 2000 Punto JTD HLX 5 Door -- 2008-2014 - 2004 Stilo JTD Dynamic 3 Door --
2014-2017 - 2013 Alfa MiTo -- 2017-2018 - 2016 Alfa Giulietta
Current - 2018 '68' Tipo T-JET S-Design - Street Grey

JTD_Liam is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-07-2015   #7
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,189
Thanks: 44
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

What I don't understand is how the Panda Cross scores 5.4 points in the offset test, yet the normal Panda scores 13.8 points in the same test? What's changed?

I agree that there is now too much emphasis on driver aids. Personally, I would feel far safer in a car with good passive safety than 1 that performs more averagely in passive safety, yet is stuffed full of safety assistance devices. I drive a Grande Punto, which I feel very safe in. I feel safe because I know that the body was designed to withstand a hefty impact, plus it has 3 airbags to protect me. I appreciate the ABS, but I'm really not bothered by the lack of traction control, ESP, autonomous braking, etc.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

puntofan01 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-07-2015   #8
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,189
Thanks: 44
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Quote Originally Posted by JTD_Liam View Post
The Panda Cross is no less safe than the regular Panda, it's just that Euro NCAP have moved goalposts. Whilst I'm glad they've toughened up the rules as it was getting silly seeing everything given 5 stars, it's a bit of a double edged sword.
IMO, the fact that most cars were getting 5 stars is a good thing: unlike the economy & emissions test, it's impossible falsify an independent crash test result. The sole reason 5 star ratings were becoming so commonplace was because manufacturers were designing the bodyshells and passenger compartment structures to withstand the impact, and prevent injuries. If they wanted to improve the NCAP test, they would've been better off just adding the full width test to the frontal impact assessment.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

puntofan01 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-07-2015   #9
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Beccles, Suffolk
Posts: 2,328
Thanks: 196
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
If they wanted to improve the NCAP test, they would've been better off just adding the full width test to the frontal impact assessment.
Isn't that what they've done?
__________________
Barchetta LE (no 2468), 1998, Silver with Red Hood and Red Leather Interior, Hardtop, Wind-stop, Novitec SS Exhaust
Panda Cross Twinair, 15 Reg, in glorious Yellow , replacing a much-loved yellow DS3 DSport THP
gar074 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-07-2015   #10
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North Herts
Posts: 2,093
Thanks: 286
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Here's some thoughts:
The 'standard' Panda got 4 stars, but they didn't do a separate test on the 'normal' 4x4. If they had, maybe that woudl also have scored' down' like the Cross has. Does the extra height mean the side impact test strikes a different part of the car? (I think the object they crash with or into is a fixed height) Could affect the front end crash test too?

Does the Cross's revised nose have make a difference? - much of the Panda's square front is there to absorb impact and reduce pedestrian injury. The Cross cuts that away to give better offroad approach angle, but maybe at the expense of an NCAP star? The two beefy red tow hooks are probably quite good at transferring frontal impact into the car too, rather than absorbing it. And again, the extra height may have a bearing on the results.
__________________
2018 Panda 4x4 MJ :: North Herts :: Remember, if you find a post helpful, press the smiley face 'thanks' button below
Herts Hillhopper is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-07-2015   #11
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,189
Thanks: 44
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Quote Originally Posted by gar074 View Post
Isn't that what they've done?
They have, but they also put a massive emphasis on electronic driver aids.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

puntofan01 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-07-2015   #12
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Solihull
Posts: 1,523
Thanks: 36
Trader Rating: 0
JimbbobW1977 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
They have, but they also put a massive emphasis on electronic driver aids.

Have you seen the massive increase in the number of people sat in traffic texting or looking at their phone and not paying attention.

That one push of the 'send' button could be the time when they are not looking ahead and go straight into the back of the car in front.

I have auto braking, lane departure, all driver aids, torque vectoring, speed signs reader etc on my car. I have to say the auto braking is frightening when it kicks in when it thought I was going to drive into a hedge or car park barrier! It reacts so quickly and violently and far quicker than a human could.

These bits of kit are designed to save lives however they also put up costs.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

JimbbobW1977 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-07-2015   #13
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,189
Thanks: 44
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Quote Originally Posted by JimbbobW1977 View Post
Have you seen the massive increase in the number of people sat in traffic texting or looking at their phone and not paying attention.

That one push of the 'send' button could be the time when they are not looking ahead and go straight into the back of the car in front.

I have auto braking, lane departure, all driver aids, torque vectoring, speed signs reader etc on my car. I have to say the auto braking is frightening when it kicks in when it thought I was going to drive into a hedge or car park barrier! It reacts so quickly and violently and far quicker than a human could.

These bits of kit are designed to save lives however they also put up costs.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but don't you think a certain amount of that could be because these people know the car will react for them? Call me old fashioned, but I use my own careful observation to spot speed limit signs, people pulling out of junctions, etc. My phone stays in my pocket, and if I'm aware it's ringing, I ignore it. Essentially, the point I'm making is this: people are aware of all the electronic safety nets their cars have, and as a result, are becoming complacent and letting their driving standards slip.

I'm not for 1 second that saying everybody who drives an aid-filled car is like this, but you do have to wonder if it isn't a contributing factor.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

puntofan01 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 02-07-2015   #14
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Solihull
Posts: 1,523
Thanks: 36
Trader Rating: 0
JimbbobW1977 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

I would imagine a lot of people are not aware the car has the equipment fitted or what it actually does.

If you asked a large proportion of the public what ESP SRS Auto Braking, Lane departure is they would not know and have no idea if their car had it.

I have always been taught to look as far ahead as you possibly can at the road to anticipate and see what is coming, you will see the people who don't do this - they are the ones who stop at an island to look right and then start off again rather reading the road.

Problem is modern culture - people are always communicating and do so on phones.

If all this technology helps prevent accidents and makes cars safer than it is a good thing.

Some safety systems are very important like ABS and ESP - I would not feel safe without either of these, not because I drive like an idiot but because they are their to help when needed. You never know if a wet island has a diesel spillage on it etc etc...
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

JimbbobW1977 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 03-07-2015   #15
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,189
Thanks: 44
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross only gets 3* in Euro NCAP

Quote Originally Posted by JimbbobW1977 View Post
Problem is modern culture - people are always communicating and do so on phones.
I agree that it is a large part of the problem. Personally, I think they should introduce far,far tougher punishments for people who use their mobiles whilst driving.

I fear that with all the increase in technology, these problems are only going to get worse. I don't even use the Blue & Me in my car!
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

puntofan01 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
do euro ncap crash test ratings actually mean much? puntonew Leisure Lounge 49 08-09-2013 13:24
(G) Euro Ncap 5 Star? No problem! ahmett 500 3 22-10-2012 15:59
(G) 5 Star Euro NCAP!!! Jazzy Jase 500 7 04-09-2007 20:26
New Panda Euro NCAP Results jasper Lets Talk FIAT 32 06-12-2004 01:15
(G) Has the Stilo been Euro NCAP'ed? Lead Stilo 7 11-07-2003 04:21