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Old 09-11-2018   #16
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Certainly the FIRE engine seems rather untroubled with supermarket petrol. It doesn't like Tesco momentum though as it coughs and splutters. I've used Morrison's petrol just the 95 stuff and its fine.
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Old 09-11-2018   #17
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Settled for Asda 95 and compared to Shell V Power saved around £4. Won't go as well but will need more fuel in under a week anyway. There's Texaco near where buy my lunch for work, doubt fuel will last until a Saturday, will see.
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Old 11-11-2018   #18
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Just a thought, as an Euro 6 4x4 m-jet driver, has anyone compared using the more expensive diesel over the standard stuff?
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Old 11-11-2018   #19
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Used to use BP Ultimate Diesel in 2010. Little cleaner and perkier. Paid for itself in couple of mpg more. Though as fuel station on dual carriageway could average good mpg instantly due to instant average speed of 65 mph. Nowadays the fuel would burn more completely so not fill dpf as often. At least that's the theory. You'd get nearer to 2 years before needing an oil change maybe. Though I'd have changed every year, or twice a year on the Twin Air.
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Old 20-11-2018   #20
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Our TA 4x4 dislikes the BP regular petrol - stutters and fluffs far more than on any other brand (including supermarket fuels). Unfortunately BP is our local garage, so if weíre running low and need to use the local garage, it gets a tank of Super Unleaded, on which it flies (and seems to produce better mpg too). For a couple of extra quid on a tank, itís not worth suffering the rougher running of Ďregularí. Appreciate that logic would suggest this shouldnít be the case, but the TwinAir engine definitely seems more susceptible to fuel quality than most.
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Last edited by Panda 4x4 TA Antarctica; 20-11-2018 at 22:34.
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Old 13-01-2019   #21
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Back to Super Unleaded (BP 97) as pick up at low speed in 2nd non existent again. Additives and lower ethanol content of Shell Fuelsave did almost make me stick with that. 10 weeks ago think I last put VPower in while out in an evening. Big difference. When I can improve economy by 20-30%, lot cheaper using Asda 95 (around £7 a tank). But when it's doing high 20's may as well have it running properly (and it seriously flies).
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Old 15-01-2019   #22
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Does using better fuel really make a difference in our Pandas?
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Old 15-01-2019   #23
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Supermarket fuel

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
Does using better fuel really make a difference in our Pandas?


I get around 2-3 mpg better when using V power. Also when using V power the engine does feel smoother, power deliver feels a more linear and most importantly, pick up is better in 1st & 2nd from low revs. Then when it comes to service time, the spark plugs come out noticeably cleaner so I know itís doing good with itís additives for cleaning and friction.

I should note this is for a 1.2 EU6
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Last edited by AAB1992; 15-01-2019 at 09:41.
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Old 15-01-2019   #24
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
Does using better fuel really make a difference in our Pandas?
Yes. The contents of your wallet will be smaller.
Quote Originally Posted by AAB1992 View Post
I get around 2-3 mpg better when using V power. Also when using V power the engine does feel smoother, power deliver feels a more linear and most importantly, pick up is better in 1st & 2nd from low revs. Then when it comes to service time, the spark plugs come out noticeably cleaner so I know itís doing good with itís additives for cleaning and friction.

I should note this is for a 1.2 EU6
The Euro4, 60hp 1.2, which SB1500 has (and mine) seems to make no noticeable difference using the more expensive fuel. These engines are in such a low state of tune they'll run on almost anything flammable. The minimum octane rating stated in the handbook is 95 RON, which is our standard unleaded fuel. It is designed to run on that.

A quick calculation will show if an improvement of 2-3mpg is gained, what percentage gain is that. Then compare with the percentage increase of fuel price for the 'better' stuff. For most it will be a loss overall.
After that it becomes a justification of cost for the perceived benefits. If you can afford the extra, and feel better for it, you can do no harm by using it. You will do no harm using the cheaper stuff either.
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Old 17-01-2019   #25
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Yes. The contents of your wallet will be smaller.





The Euro4, 60hp 1.2, which SB1500 has (and mine) seems to make no noticeable difference using the more expensive fuel. These engines are in such a low state of tune they'll run on almost anything flammable. The minimum octane rating stated in the handbook is 95 RON, which is our standard unleaded fuel. It is designed to run on that.



A quick calculation will show if an improvement of 2-3mpg is gained, what percentage gain is that. Then compare with the percentage increase of fuel price for the 'better' stuff. For most it will be a loss overall.

After that it becomes a justification of cost for the perceived benefits. If you can afford the extra, and feel better for it, you can do no harm by using it. You will do no harm using the cheaper stuff either.


Iíve been using supermarket brand fuel for the past few years. Mostly Tesco. Lately Asda as theyíre doing petrol for £1.13 in a town here. I wonder if they water it down. The supermarkets wouldnít surprise me if they did to be honest!
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Old 17-01-2019   #26
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Re: Supermarket fuel

A few myths to debunk here!

The big difference between fuels is in the additive packs. Most fuel in a region will come from a handful of terminals. When loading the tanker, the fuel is blended with each brand's particular additives.

Supermarkets will often source fuel on the 'spot market' - where they'll buy from whichever terminal is cheapest on the day - this is why you can feel a difference from one tank to another, as there's no consistency.

The supermarket additive pack is a generic off-the-shelf pack, whereas oil companies (and in particular Shell, Esso and BP) work in conjunction with Formula 1 teams and other racing series to test new fuel developments. For example (I work for the ones with a logo you could find on a beach) - VPower is 99% the same chemicals compounds as the F1 fuel. In 2017, 20% of the power gains found by Ferrari were down to developments in the fuel - this is directly fed into the road fuel developments.

VPower diesel is particular good for modern diesels with EGRs, DPFs etc., as it helps to keep them soot and oil free - it was developed from the experience of being the control fuel supplier for the Le Mans series in the diesel era.

Almost all fuels are running towards the 5% ethanol end of the scale now - you can't avoid it as the government legislates for a renewable content in all fuels. Diesel has a higher renewable content as it's easier to put rape seed oil etc into diesel than it is to increase the renewable content (ethanol) in unleaded - many cars can't run on more than 5% ethanol.

One issue which has impacted Tesco in particular is the procedure used to wash out tankers - because they deliver mixed loads of diesel, unleaded and Momentum super, they have to been cleaned out every day A silicone based cleaner is used - if you don't rinse properly, this can find its way into fuel (diesel in particular) and block injectors.
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Old 17-01-2019   #27
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Quote Originally Posted by Schumi2001 View Post
A few myths to debunk here!

The big difference between fuels is in the additive packs. Most fuel in a region will come from a handful of terminals. When loading the tanker, the fuel is blended with each brand's particular additives.

Supermarkets will often source fuel on the 'spot market' - where they'll buy from whichever terminal is cheapest on the day - this is why you can feel a difference from one tank to another, as there's no consistency.

The supermarket additive pack is a generic off-the-shelf pack, whereas oil companies (and in particular Shell, Esso and BP) work in conjunction with Formula 1 teams and other racing series to test new fuel developments. For example (I work for the ones with a logo you could find on a beach) - VPower is 99% the same chemicals compounds as the F1 fuel. In 2017, 20% of the power gains found by Ferrari were down to developments in the fuel - this is directly fed into the road fuel developments.

VPower diesel is particular good for modern diesels with EGRs, DPFs etc., as it helps to keep them soot and oil free - it was developed from the experience of being the control fuel supplier for the Le Mans series in the diesel era.

Almost all fuels are running towards the 5% ethanol end of the scale now - you can't avoid it as the government legislates for a renewable content in all fuels. Diesel has a higher renewable content as it's easier to put rape seed oil etc into diesel than it is to increase the renewable content (ethanol) in unleaded - many cars can't run on more than 5% ethanol.

One issue which has impacted Tesco in particular is the procedure used to wash out tankers - because they deliver mixed loads of diesel, unleaded and Momentum super, they have to been cleaned out every day A silicone based cleaner is used - if you don't rinse properly, this can find its way into fuel (diesel in particular) and block injectors.
Now that's what I call an answer on fuels - top effort!

Just to add that the EU6-onwards cars in particular need very smart ECU's that can adapt to environmental (and fuel) changes quickly, so can make the most of improved fuels with better ingredients and octane etc. I run my TA on V-Power almost exclusively (their iOS App is such a breeze) and when I once had to bag half a tank of cooking stuff from an independent, the difference was quite stark. Happy to pay a bit extra for the best I can get for my engine.
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Old 17-01-2019   #28
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Our family vehicles run almost exclusively on Morrisons standard grade fuel. Petrol engined Astra 1.6, - Jazz 1.4, - Panda 1.2, - Punto 1.4 8v. Diesel engined SEAT Cordoba 1.9 tdi VE, - Fabia 1.9 tdi PD, - and our newest addition Kia Rio 1.4 tdi. No (fuel related) problems with any of them. Broadly speaking I don't hold with aftermarket additives, - especially oil additives. Fuel additives? undecided, but I ran Wynns Eco Diesel in the Cordoba because of it's additional lubricating qualities, because now we have low sulphur diesel, to protect the high pressure pump and injectors. Never managed to convince my boy to run it in the Fabia though. I recently replaced the Cordoba with a direct injection petrol Ibiza and, as I'm concerned about the possibility of carbon build up in the inlets (a direct consequence of it being direct injection) I run Archoil AR 6900-P MAX in it. The Archoil also provides increased lubricity which I'm hoping will help protect the high pressure pump and injectors. A few years ago our venerable 1992 Panda Parade (Felicity) developed a blow in her head gasket - No 1 cylinder. I was most impressed to see, once I'd removed the head, how clean the inlets were (Single point injector). Even within the cylinders themselves and the head, there was no excessively great carbon build up. We had owned her since she was just a few years old and ran her on Morrison's fuel maybe 99% of the time. All of the vehicles get very regular oil changes with top quality, OE manufacturers spec, oil.

I used to, socially, "bump into" a tanker driver a few years ago. He told me that pretty much all the fuel in our area comes out of the Granton refinary, and, as someone above has said, the additive packages for the different brands get added depending on who has purchased that individual load. Of course I can only speak from my own experience but I think you can look at this from various points of view.

1) Unless you are a "performance" driver with a car that can take advantage of the higher octane fuel, just use standard supermarket fuel. The additive package is unlikely to be the best but, based on my experiences, it would seem to be adequate. It's worth considering too that supermarkets have a very high turn over so you are never likely to encounter "stale" product.

2) Premium grade fuels would seem to have performance advantages if you have an engine and ECU that can take advantage of it. It's very probably that there are other beneficial elements too but the whole thing is shrouded in secrecy and I find it impossible to find out anything definitive. Some People report advantages others seem to notice no measurable effect.

3) Because I have no problem with supermarket fuels (and Mrs J collects the "loyalty thing") I decided, many years ago to just run it. However where I can spot a particular area of concern (ie the lubricity deficit due to removing sulphur from Diesel and the, much reported, inlet carbon fouling on modern direct injection petrol engines) I will research it and look for solutions - hence the Wynns Eco Diesel for the Cordoba and the Archoil AR 6900-P MAX for the Ibiza. I really don't know for sure but I think addressing specific areas of weakness in this way, rather than the "scatter gun" approach of using the premium grade product, just may be more effective?
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Old 17-01-2019   #29
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Re: Supermarket fuel

Quote Originally Posted by Schumi2001 View Post
A few myths to debunk here!

The big difference between fuels is in the additive packs. Most fuel in a region will come from a handful of terminals. When loading the tanker, the fuel is blended with each brand's particular additives.

Supermarkets will often source fuel on the 'spot market' - where they'll buy from whichever terminal is cheapest on the day - this is why you can feel a difference from one tank to another, as there's no consistency.

The supermarket additive pack is a generic off-the-shelf pack, whereas oil companies (and in particular Shell, Esso and BP) work in conjunction with Formula 1 teams and other racing series to test new fuel developments. For example (I work for the ones with a logo you could find on a beach) - VPower is 99% the same chemicals compounds as the F1 fuel. In 2017, 20% of the power gains found by Ferrari were down to developments in the fuel - this is directly fed into the road fuel developments.

VPower diesel is particular good for modern diesels with EGRs, DPFs etc., as it helps to keep them soot and oil free - it was developed from the experience of being the control fuel supplier for the Le Mans series in the diesel era.

Almost all fuels are running towards the 5% ethanol end of the scale now - you can't avoid it as the government legislates for a renewable content in all fuels. Diesel has a higher renewable content as it's easier to put rape seed oil etc into diesel than it is to increase the renewable content (ethanol) in unleaded - many cars can't run on more than 5% ethanol.

One issue which has impacted Tesco in particular is the procedure used to wash out tankers - because they deliver mixed loads of diesel, unleaded and Momentum super, they have to been cleaned out every day A silicone based cleaner is used - if you don't rinse properly, this can find its way into fuel (diesel in particular) and block injectors.
Thanks for this Schumi - very interesting reading, I've learned a lot from it. Can I ask if all tankers are washed out with a silicone fluid? I ask because now a days, with catalytic converters and especially Oxygen sensors being sensitive to silicon, I make a point of sourcing silicon free "Cat/O2 friendly" sealants (both for exhaust systems and for sealing sumps/cam covers, etc.

I'd also be interested in what you think of my "take" on fuel additives? Although I'm guessing you'll tell me not to waste my money?

Incidentally, can I just say I have a very high opinion of modern Shell fuels and oils although I'm old enough to remember doing a load of cylinder head overhauls due to burnt valves/valve seats!

Lastly, I read a lot about developments in oils which are aimed at reducing carbon fouling of inlet ports/valve heads on direct injection engines - anything of great import/interest you can impart to us simpletons with the dirty fingernails and big hammers?

Kindest regards
Jock
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Old 17-01-2019   #30
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Re: Supermarket fuel

(I typed that response after a night of overnight health & safety visits which came after working all day... and I've just noticed I made a right mess of some of the spelling and grammar!)

To answer some questions - yes, it's standard practice to use a silicone based cleaner on tankers. Due diligence means it should all be removed when rinsing, but it would appear some retailers put their logistics under a huge amount of pressure and corners have, in the past, been cut. Haven't heard of it for a few years now, though.

I'm really, really wary of fuel additives - none of them get the kind of money and research thrown at them as the additives put in the fuels by the big oil companies. At best, they do very little, at worst, they could react with the additives in the fuel and negate the benefits / produce undesirable benefits.

As for oils - this is a big area of research these days - we sell a GTL (gas to liquid) oil (Helix Ultra) which is specifically formulated to prevent and clean carbon buildup. It's a big challenge, as you used to be able to rely on fuel additives to clean these up!

Just to answer the point over 'stale' fuel - it's a myth. Nobody wants to be sitting on £30k of fuel in the ground, so everyone only orders what they can sell within a week or so of delivery. At worst, you may find fuel that is a month old - but in the UK it could have been sitting on a sea tanker for longer than that anyway! (We have to import a lot of refined stock as we no longer have self sufficiency in our refinery capacity)
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