Technical Initial Start-up / Ignition

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Technical Initial Start-up / Ignition

DannyGM

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Hi all,

I've recently picked up my brand new Panda Pop (1.2 version) and couldn't be happier with it. However I have noticed a little bit of a delay when initially starting the car, in fact last Friday it failed to ignite twice, 3rd time it did kick in with a little bit of pressure on the acceleration pedal. On turning the key I can here the 'hum' of the fuel pump at the rear but when I then turn the key over the car definitely seems a little reluctant to fire up. It appears to be running fine, there's a bit of a flat spot in the lower gears but I can live with that. Just filled up with Super Unleaded so will see how that goes. My main concern is the initial starting of the car. I've spoke to my dealer and they recommended running it for another week or so to see. They'll then do various diagnostics to see if anything needs updating, etc... Should I be overly concerned or does this sound pretty standard ? By the way I always make sure the car is in Neutral and the clutch pedal is depressed, as per manual. Not sure what the clutch thing is all about, maybe someone could explain .....
 
We've had our Panda 1.2 for nearly three weeks and we haven't had any issue like this. It could just be the battery though. When you turn the ignition on, does the starter motor turn the engine over quickly, or does it sound like it's struggling? Did you order the car from stock or was it built to your specification? I wonder if might have been sitting for a while before being delivered and registered, which could have drained the battery.

If you don't mind me asking, when you drive your car, can you hear a kind of metallic throb/clunk when you change gear at higher revs (around 3000 RPM+)? I have the same engine as you and it makes this noise when changing gears. Just wondered if I'm the only one and need to speak with the dealer :confused:
 
Thanks Paul. Funnily enough I did wonder if it could be battery related?

Not sure about the starter motor, etc...

In first and second gear it can sound pretty shocking when the revs get above 2500, so I tend to change gear quite early, no doubt causing the flat / dull spot in lower gears that I mentioned. I'm hoping its something of nothing and I don't need to take it in.
 
Depressing the clutch at start up takes some load off the battery/starter motor as they aren't spinning up half the gearbox as well as the engine.

You are disengaging the clutch so the stater only spins up as far as the flywheel, it's quite common now to find this in the handbook, particularly common rail diesels as they need to generate massive rail pressures before they'll fire the injectors.
Every little helps!

Have you waited until all the ECU's have ran their checks before starting?
Modern cars can sometimes "pause" while they run the checks as the igntion goes on, so wait for the dash lights to settle before cranking.

Try getting in, turning the igntion on, put your seatbelt on (gives the ECU's a few seconds) and then try cranking it up.


The flat spot is well documented and can be driven around, basically the car will, on pulling away (lifting the clutch) take control of the rpm for you and creep like an automatic.

If you input the pedal yourself at this time it can bog down a little.

Try pulling away with just the clutch and leave the throttle alone for a second ot two (the ecu will add the fuel and air for you to pull away), once moving, start applying the throttle.

You can make some pretty smooth getaways like this and with a bit of practise, some quick, wheel spin free ones!
 
Thanks for such a comprehensive and detailed reply. Its funny how you mention waiting a few seconds for the dashboard lights to settle etc... Because that's how I've always started cars however doing this seems to be causing the start up problems with the panda. It seems fine if I turn the key and crank it straight away which will take a lot of getting used to cause I've never started any of my cars like this.
 
Hi DannyGM,

If at all possible, would you be able to film it and then post a video on here? That would be helpful as I am sure people will instantly know if it seems normal or not.

We have had three 1.2s (two 500s and a Panda) and they have all been slightly reluctant to start from cold at some stage, primarily between say October and April. But they always started first time, just needed to make sure you turned the key for long enough.

Does this thread that I wrote several years back sound the same sort of issue or not?:
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/253334-cold-start-stumbles.html
 
hello i have a 12 lounge, 30000km , i think the problem of your car its imputable to the sparks and the air filter, its tipcally when the sprks have a little spesor,ihope you can understand what i mean..im itaian.
bye
 
Hi DannyGM,

If at all possible, would you be able to film it and then post a video on here? That would be helpful as I am sure people will instantly know if it seems normal or not.

We have had three 1.2s (two 500s and a Panda) and they have all been slightly reluctant to start from cold at some stage, primarily between say October and April. But they always started first time, just needed to make sure you turned the key for long enough.

Does this thread that I wrote several years back sound the same sort of issue or not?:
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/253334-cold-start-stumbles.html


Thanks for this Super Uwe, sounds frighteningly similar, yes !! I like many others am reluctant to return to the dealer - to hang around for a few hours just to be told all is fine ...... I'll just carry on running it as I have been, see how things go. It definitely seems happier starting up if I turn the key and then crank it over quickly, as oppose to waiting for the fuel pump to stop priming and the dash display to update, etc...
On another note the car is definitely more responsive and smoother on the 98RON Super Unleaded, so will persevere with that for sure.
 
Ah good, well hopefully my thread there has helped a bit if that is indeed what the problem is.

I've always found it a slightly puzzling issue in that all of our cars did this! But it isn't really anything to worry about I don't think - you get used to it after a while.

I have also found premium unleaded to be a good choice in the 1.2. It won't turn it into a hot hatch by any means, but it definitely improves the general smoothness of the engine when cold and is also a bit perkier as you accelerate away from first to third (in the 0-40mph range).

However that is my own personal experience and you will equally find others on here who think premium fuel is a complete waste of time in a car with such a small engine;)
 
Goudrons, regarding starting and pulling away, that was a very useful post! :)

I got Panda 1.2 Easy a couple of weeks ago, coming from Mondeo MK3 Diesel!

However, for any car including my old car, I didn't need to touch the acceleration pedal upon starting as it is usually taken care of.
 
The clutch on Mrs Goudrons 1.2 bites quite a bit higher than on my TA, it also increases the rpm considerably higher as well.

But no where near as bad as my Lads 1.1 C2, that bites at the last mil of travel and it's a brand new clutch and there's very little rpm increase.

Barnettgs, I came from that Ford Suradorq engine and it did increase rpm on lifting the clutch, but it was in my old X Type.
All I can say is, 99k of worry free 50+ mpg motoring, then everything is designed to feckup!
Daul Mass Flywheel and clutch, crank pulley and tensioner, injectors, HP pump, steering pump all broke down the second the clock ticked over 99k!

I hear Ford set the ECU to loose injector coding after around 85k or so, so it started running rough and you had to get them recalibrated or replaced and coded in, cheeky feckers!
 
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Barnettgs, I came from that Ford Suradorq engine and it did increase rpm on lifting the clutch, but it was in my old X Type.
All I can say is, 99k of worry free 50+ mpg motoring, then everything is designed to feckup!
Daul Mass Flywheel and clutch, crank pulley and tensioner, injectors, HP pump, steering pump all broke down the second the clock ticked over 99k!

I hear Ford set the ECU to loose injector coding after around 85k or so, so it started running rough and you had to get them recalibrated or replaced and coded in, cheeky feckers!
Duradorq? Yes, I was driving with TDDI engine and it was my first and (hopefully) last diesel engine. Glad to be back driving a small petrol car again and it feels like a normal car now! :D

Although TDDI wasn't exactly smooth but actually a very reliable engine unlike the TDCI, it had done 206K miles with its original injectors and everything, apart from clutch/flywheel kit, an alternator and a starter motor replacement. But the body, suspensions, etc have too many niggles and with its age, it feels 'loosened up' and it was a pig to drive on small country roads and around the town/car park! :D
 
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I thought depressing the throttle while starting a modern fuel injected car was a definite no no.
The management system can sense it as a fault and wont allow the engine to start.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, It was a while ago (20 plus years) when picking my first fuel injected Uno that this was explained by the dealer, things may have changed.
 
Brand of fuel

I just remember now about using the brand of fuel. You didn't say what brand of petrol you put in the first place and it might give a clue.

With my old diesel car, I filled up my car with cheapest diesel and my car was quite sluggish so I had to depress throttle more than I would normally do and got a fewer miles out of the tank, say around 50 miles or more, out of regular 600. So once it is almost empty, I filled it up with Texaco and it ran great afterward. I read that it is just the same with petrol.

You can have a read about using branded and supermarket fuels - http://www.simplemotoring.co.uk/supermarket-vs-branded-fuels/

Also read some comments there, you will be surprised at how using a cheaper fuels can cause some troubles e.g. rough starting up, warning light or even going into 'Safe mode'!
 
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