Technical Panda Twinair Cross - short service intervals
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Technical Panda Twinair Cross - short service intervals
Peter Rawlings
Member
"seeing as yours is a diesel"
Actually, it's. TA.
Actually, it's. TA.
Peter Rawlings
Member
There were some issues around this particularly when the TA changed from Euro 5 to Euro 6 in 2014, there were reports of garages not using the correct grade of oil, the TA is sensitive to this by virtue of its design. E5 cars took 5W40 and E6 (current) are 0W30. I had an earlyish oil change done at 10K and they used 5W40 as in fairness thats what the Fiat system quoted going by my VIN despite my manual quoting 0W! Anyway the car dident like it at all particularly on start up so they changed it to 0W and all was good, the confusion came from the fact my car was built in Dec 13 and delivered Jan 14 so there were doubts as to whether it was E5 or 6, it since has been proven its E6. Its getting a 2 year service tomorrow at 19.5 K so it'll get a fresh dose! In your case its much clearer as your Cross is definitely E6 so the corect oil is Selenia Digitek 0W30 and I presume thats what your manual states? It comes in a red bottle. TBH I think the wrong oil thing has probably washed out by now but its worth checking for your own peace of mind. A change at 1000 miles seems a bit excessive I would have thought but around 5K makes sense and then annually thereafter if your not doing huge mileage.
This is really helpful background, thanks. Mine was ordered in November and collected last week so pretty sure you're right about the model. Have been too busy today to check the manual but will st the weekend and I'm grateful about the alert about the oil....
And just to reiterate I DO have a TA and NOT a diesel!
Done 600 miles in one week....cannot get over what a brilliant big little car this is and the engine is a real gem I think. I'm keeping the revs under 4K at present for a couple of thou......and I will go ahead with the oil changes anyway!
Thanks for the info again!
Peter Rawlings
Member
Hi Peter,
I would double check your manual just to be sure.
I haven't heard of the schedule being specifically 18,000 miles or each year (annual oil/filter services usually mandatory for low mileage cars), but seeing as yours is a diesel it may well be the case.
Don't want you to be caught out
Actually it's a TA! (The Doblo is diesel).
Is it a TwinAir or a Diesel?!
Seriously though, I think SuperUwe was just trying to be helpful, and actually he's right because the interval has never been 1 year or 18,000 miles. For petrol engines it was 2 years or 18,000 miles until part-way through 2014, but it then changed to 1 year or 9000 miles for an inspection which doesn't include an oil change, then another year or until the car completed 18,000 miles (whichever comes first) when the car needs its first proper service with oil change.
As has been suggested already, it's not a bad idea for the oil & filter to be changed at the inspection at 9000 miles too, especially as the car's already at the garage.
Just to complicate matters, cars completing less than 6000 miles a year are meant to get an oil/filter in any case. Why Fiat couldn't just put everything on 1 year/12,000 mile intervals like some other companies instead of this mess, I dunno
Seriously though, I think SuperUwe was just trying to be helpful, and actually he's right because the interval has never been 1 year or 18,000 miles. For petrol engines it was 2 years or 18,000 miles until part-way through 2014, but it then changed to 1 year or 9000 miles for an inspection which doesn't include an oil change, then another year or until the car completed 18,000 miles (whichever comes first) when the car needs its first proper service with oil change.
As has been suggested already, it's not a bad idea for the oil & filter to be changed at the inspection at 9000 miles too, especially as the car's already at the garage.
Just to complicate matters, cars completing less than 6000 miles a year are meant to get an oil/filter in any case. Why Fiat couldn't just put everything on 1 year/12,000 mile intervals like some other companies instead of this mess, I dunno
Peter Rawlings
Member
Is it a TwinAir or a Diesel?!
Seriously though, I think SuperUwe was just trying to be helpful, and actually he's right because the interval has never been 1 year or 18,000 miles. For petrol engines it was 2 years or 18,000 miles until part-way through 2014, but it then changed to 1 year or 9000 miles for an inspection which doesn't include an oil change, then another year or until the car completed 18,000 miles (whichever comes first) when the car needs its first proper service with oil change.
As has been suggested already, it's not a bad idea for the oil & filter to be changed at the inspection at 9000 miles too, especially as the car's already at the garage.
Just to complicate matters, cars completing less than 6000 miles a year are meant to get an oil/filter in any case. Why Fiat couldn't just put everything on 1 year/12,000 mile intervals like some other companies instead of this mess, I dunno
In case of any misunderstanding, I think everyone has been helpful here.
Thanks for these clarifications.
In case of any misunderstanding, I think everyone has been helpful here.
Thanks for these clarifications.
OK, no probs
So yeah, well if yours is a TA then it sounds like it will officially be on this new 9k/1yr schedule. And you say you're going to get it done each year anyway, so you'll be fine.
But technically your dealer was wrong by the sounds of it, lol
OP
OP
Mine was in today. ECU update applied, service counter reset, car washed.
Receipt says 5/40 oil used but they assure me it was the correct 0/30.
Receipt doesn't mention oil filter. I hope / assume they did that automatically?
No fault found on the squeaky clutch pedal (still does it) so I guess I need to get busy with the lube Clutch pedal rubber replaced though
Not aware of the brake dampener kit........
Car is back in next week to have the rear skid pan replaced.
Receipt says 5/40 oil used but they assure me it was the correct 0/30.
Receipt doesn't mention oil filter. I hope / assume they did that automatically?
No fault found on the squeaky clutch pedal (still does it) so I guess I need to get busy with the lube
Clutch pedal rubber replaced though Not aware of the brake dampener kit........
Car is back in next week to have the rear skid pan replaced.
Mine was in today. ECU update applied, service counter reset, car washed.
Receipt says 5/40 oil used but they assure me it was the correct 0/30.
Receipt doesn't mention oil filter. I hope / assume they did that automatically?
No fault found on the squeaky clutch pedal (still does it) so I guess I need to get busy with the lube
Not aware of the brake dampener kit........
Car is back in next week to have the rear skid pan replaced.
I got mine serviced last week at 19K, can you believe they put in the wrong oil in again even though I quizzed them on it when I left it in, I spotted it on the receipt so they changed it while I waited along with filter, I'm now on my 7th oil! :bang: Mine wasent very happy on 5W40 and was rough on a cold start up so I think you'd notice if they put it in.
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OP
OP
I guess I'll find out at cold start tomorrow. What about the oil filter though?
On the upside, the re-active the Pan European breakdown cover, giving you the same cover as the first year.
This is zero cost
On the upside, the re-active the Pan European breakdown cover, giving you the same cover as the first year.
This is zero cost
Just collected my Cross TA from Desira, Norwich after it's 18,000 mile service. I've been very impressed with their service over the past five years or so. Always courteous, explain everything they have done, valet the car inside and out and the nice surprise was the free 12 months roadside assistance. Servicing check list is clear that they used Selenia Digitek 0W-30 oil.
I guess I'll find out at cold start tomorrow. What about the oil filter though?
On the upside, the re-active the Pan European breakdown cover, giving you the same cover as the first year.
This is zero cost
You'd have to presume they did the filter but odd they dident charge....that's a first! I find all this unprofessional servicing stuff really frustrating, I hate that feeling of doubt. Considering these places are approved fiat service centres and for what they charge you think they'd get it right
OP
OP
I'm happy with J&J. Nice people, easy to deal with.
At booking in, the parts guy said the 0/30 was ready. I have to assume it's been done right, along with the filter.
The receipt says Castrol Magnatech Professional OE E4 5W/40.
At booking in, the parts guy said the 0/30 was ready. I have to assume it's been done right, along with the filter.
The receipt says Castrol Magnatech Professional OE E4 5W/40.
Mine was in today. ECU update applied, service counter reset, car washed.
Receipt says 5/40 oil used but they assure me it was the correct 0/30.
Receipt doesn't mention oil filter. I hope / assume they did that automatically?
No fault found on the squeaky clutch pedal (still does it) so I guess I need to get busy with the lube
Not aware of the brake dampener kit........
Car is back in next week to have the rear skid pan replaced.
Did you not get a job sheet from your dealer? That usually itemises all of the various service items that they will have done.
If not, I reckon if you ring them they will send it to you.
Unless policy has changed in the past year or so...it is Fiat after all!
Mine was in today. ECU update applied, service counter reset, car washed.
Receipt says 5/40 oil used but they assure me it was the correct 0/30.
Receipt doesn't mention oil filter. I hope / assume they did that automatically?
No fault found on the squeaky clutch pedal (still does it) so I guess I need to get busy with the lube
Not aware of the brake dampener kit........
Car is back in next week to have the rear skid pan replaced.
It sounds like you get on well with the dealer so that's good, but I'd actually be a bit peeved if I got an invoice that doesn't say whether the oil filter was changed. You requested it as extra work over & above the standard first year 'check' so it should be documented, if nothing else to show a future owner that you bothered to go over & above the standard requirements when looking after your car.
If they'd not said they can't find a fault with the clutch pedal & don't know about the brake damper kit I might've let them off, but it's all just a little bit half-arsed.
I nearly had kittens when on the service for my Alfa I saw the dealer had used Shell Helix instead of Selenia. I let them off as other owners said Shell is arguably better oil, and the service was otherwise brilliant, but I do think seen as these are main dealers and Fiat/Alfa recommends Selenia, they should at least tell you if they don't use it routinely.
The Fiat dealer I went to with my previous Fiat would say what oil they used & then offered Selenia at a slightly higher price, which I always went with. Most of the time they didn't charge extra as I used to drive about 50 miles each way to them, but it was always clearly documented on the invoice. Once the Alfa's out of warranty I'll probably go back to them (Pewsham Garages nr Chippenham), though other than the Shell oil instead of Selenia, I can't fault Johnsons Solihull either - it's just a shame they're both such a drive from where I live!
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Never assume that a filter is automatically changed with the oil, it's not. Historically, the filter was changed every second oil change so you needed to ask if you wanted it every oil change though this may have changed with the longer service intervals. Even so, I wouldn't assume it's been done.
Just pray you never need them to do anything more than servicing them. Worst company I've had to deal with for issues and repairs, with their incompetence costing my hundreds of pounds and leaving me in an unroad worthy vehicle! Don't be fooled my how nice they come across is all I can advise.
While I agree that it is necessary to use oil of the right 'thickness/viscosity (the 0W30 bit), I do still find it interesting that people worry of it is or is not made by Selena.
My other car is a Volvo V50. This has a 1.6 diesel engine that is made by Ford and shared with Peugeot/Citroen (and others, including LandRover and Mazda). It actually says "Peugeot" on some parts of the the engine, and FoMoCo on others.
Point of this? Every car maker that uses this engine specifies their own, but different, brand of oil to use with it. This is because most car makes have a 'connection' to a particular company, either through ownership or by effectively a sponsorship arrangement. Ford recommend their own, Volvo recommend Castrol, Peugeot recommend Elf Oils. The brand will not affect your car, but the wrong grade will. Selena Oils are made by a company Fiat/Chrysler has a controlling share in, so of course they say 'use our oils' - they get more of your money that way. As well as just the viscosity rating, there are additional specs
But take a look at the oil specs for the new Jeep Renegade (which is the same car as the 500X, made by Fiat, with Fiat engines, in Fiat owned factories... )In the US you cannot be 'prescriptive' with a brand name, only a spec. Here's what Jeep say (note no Selena oils there, and plenty I bet you never heard of before)(SAE 5W-40 Synthetic, API Certified) - 4.0 Quarts
Engine oil and filter:
"We recommend you use SAE 5W-40 API Certified Synthetic Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA US Material Standard MS-12991 such as MOPAR, Pennzoil, and Shell Helix. Refer to your engine oil filler cap for correct SAE grade."
S0, if your garage used Shell Oil instead of Selena, no problem. But if the oil was too thick, then complain. Also check the more specific [FONT="]ACEA rati[FONT="]ngs as this is important for [FONT="]the[/FONT] TA [/FONT]
[/FONT]
My other car is a Volvo V50. This has a 1.6 diesel engine that is made by Ford and shared with Peugeot/Citroen (and others, including LandRover and Mazda). It actually says "Peugeot" on some parts of the the engine, and FoMoCo on others.
Point of this? Every car maker that uses this engine specifies their own, but different, brand of oil to use with it. This is because most car makes have a 'connection' to a particular company, either through ownership or by effectively a sponsorship arrangement. Ford recommend their own, Volvo recommend Castrol, Peugeot recommend Elf Oils. The brand will not affect your car, but the wrong grade will. Selena Oils are made by a company Fiat/Chrysler has a controlling share in, so of course they say 'use our oils' - they get more of your money that way. As well as just the viscosity rating, there are additional specs
But take a look at the oil specs for the new Jeep Renegade (which is the same car as the 500X, made by Fiat, with Fiat engines, in Fiat owned factories... )In the US you cannot be 'prescriptive' with a brand name, only a spec. Here's what Jeep say (note no Selena oils there, and plenty I bet you never heard of before)(SAE 5W-40 Synthetic, API Certified) - 4.0 Quarts
Engine oil and filter:
"We recommend you use SAE 5W-40 API Certified Synthetic Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA US Material Standard MS-12991 such as MOPAR, Pennzoil, and Shell Helix. Refer to your engine oil filler cap for correct SAE grade."
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TRUE -
my issue is that the Multiair unit seem to be the fussiest component with oil quality , worth worrying about when it's a £1000 job out of Warranty,
so I'd rather spend an additional @£5 a year more to have the CORRECT OIL in the vehicle..,
Selenia is always reputed to be from a different approach than European oils- "Tribasic" = 3 x stocks.
as an aside ;
when my OH ran an oils testing lab (for a worldwide Petro-chem),
Castrol "Magnatec" regularly failed the stringent tests
It's also interesting to note that in the USA version of the Fiat 500 handbook (from here http://www.fiatusa.com/en/owners/manuals/index.html ), while UK cars were on a 18,000 mile service interval, the USA version says never exceed 10,000 miles.
Here (note for the 1.4 engine, not the TwinAir) is the text copied from that Fiat manual...
I suspect the USA is more 'sceptical' of synthetic oils (they have plenty of the real stuff!) - the handbook says 'you can use it...' but doesn't say you have to
Also note in the text below, no mention at all of a specific make/brand of oil, only the need to meet a performance spec (that several brands can achieve)...
"NOTE: Under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 10,000 miles (16,000 km), twelve months or 350 hours of engine run time, whichever comes first. The 350 hours of engine run or idle time is generally only a
concern for fleet customers."
"Engine Oil Selection — 1.4L Engine
For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395."
"You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recommended oil quality requirements are met, and the recommended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes are followed. Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used."
Here (note for the 1.4 engine, not the TwinAir) is the text copied from that Fiat manual...
I suspect the USA is more 'sceptical' of synthetic oils (they have plenty of the real stuff!) - the handbook says 'you can use it...' but doesn't say you have to
Also note in the text below, no mention at all of a specific make/brand of oil, only the need to meet a performance spec (that several brands can achieve)...
"NOTE: Under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 10,000 miles (16,000 km), twelve months or 350 hours of engine run time, whichever comes first. The 350 hours of engine run or idle time is generally only a
concern for fleet customers."
"Engine Oil Selection — 1.4L Engine
For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395."
"You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recommended oil quality requirements are met, and the recommended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes are followed. Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used."
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