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Old 11-03-2019   #16
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Re: Valve clearances

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Why not try asking at your machine's main agent? They may know an easy and cheap source of supply? - and maybe not, but worth a try. If you can talk to a mechanic/technician even better. Most mechanics mess about at home with "stuff" and he may either have what you want or know of a supply source.
Oh yeah they sell them, price starts at 4.50, looks like there are over 50 different sizes.

https://www.worldoftriumph.com/parts...100061494-3-2/
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Old 12-03-2019   #17
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Re: Valve clearances

Quote Originally Posted by earthman View Post
Oh yeah they sell them, price starts at 4.50, looks like there are over 50 different sizes.

https://www.worldoftriumph.com/parts...100061494-3-2/
OK. That could add up. But you may only need a couple? You won't really know until you get stuck in. (Of course, being an "old fart", I tend to think - Motor cycle? that'll be a twin then. Of course yours is more likely to have at least as many valves as the average family car these days!

Being a rather creaky "old fart" I find myself enduring various niggly bodily discomforts which are hardly noticeable during the day when I'm moving around but tend to disturb me at night when lying still for a long time. Last night was one such.

So I found myself turning over and then over again at around 6 am this morning trying to find a comfortable position. Whilst doing this I find my mind thinking about "anything and awething" and I started wondering what I'd done with my old tin of shims? So, this morning, after bringing the empty bins in, I started looking through the chaos which is my garage. I remember the tin well, it's a Condor tobacco tin, couldn't find it though. As Mrs Jock would say, "You've obviously put it in a very safe place" My house and garden is obviously over endowed with "very safe places"! It's been years since I last even handled it - it'll turn up one day when I'm looking for something else I can't find!

The first, and most obvious, place I looked was in the drawer of my tool box where I keep my "special & weird" tools. almost immediately I came across the shim holding tool I had made for me so I could grind shims. I actually had 2 (for different diameters of shim) but this is the only one in the drawer - maybe the other one is keeping the Condor tin company? Anyway I thought you might like to see it:

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1080286.JPG
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ID:	198612

You can see the recess in the end where you put the shim and then you hold it lightly against the side of a grinding wheel and "kiss" off a little metal. The black paint is optional - don't remember spilling paint on it? - In use don't let it get too hot or the shim will loose it's hardness and wear rapidly when in service. (You'll also notice how clean that hand is after two weeks of being forbidden to get "mucky" whilst Mrs J's sister was staying. She went home on Sunday so the finger nails will be back to their usual grubby state soon):

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1080284.JPG
Views:	8
Size:	733.3 KB
ID:	198613

The tool works well but does have an inherent problem - there's no way of securing the shim into the end of it! The problem this causes is that, just sometimes, the edge of the shim would pick up on the stone and be "spat out" to disappear at great speed to some place where it could "hide" so you then wasted time looking for it! Annoying at home, loosing bonus time at work. Then one day I was drifting a phosphor bronze (solid) spigot bush out of a flyweel when I had a eureka moment. I was taught to remove spigot bearings by packing them with grease and selecting a punch which is a good fit in the center of the bush, inserting it and hitting it sharply on the end with a hammer. This applies a compressive shock to the grease which, being a liquid, is not compressible so transfers the force to the bearing which, usually, obliges by jumping out of it's hole! I wondered if the reverse might be true?

By the way, if you try this hold a bit of rag round the "business end" of the punch (not the end you hit) unless the punch is an exceptionally good fit in the bush some grease usually squirts out as you hit the punch with the hammer and it's not very good for the complexion - especially if you've got to wait till home time to get a really good wash!

I packed a very small amount of HMP grease into the recess on the shim tool and placed a shim on top, then tried to remove it. By gum was that difficult! What a suction. It worked brilliantly stopping the shim being "spat out" but getting the shim out of the tool took enough time to be annoying. After a little more thought I modified the tool by drilling a small hole down the middle under where the shim fits and then a slightly larger threaded hole in the side which I made a plug for (notice the head of the set screw? Imperial thread - no metric stuff in those days).

Click image for larger version

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ID:	198614

Click image for larger version

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Size:	596.2 KB
ID:	198615

Click image for larger version

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ID:	198616

The best way to use it I found to be to pack grease into the cavity with the plug removed. Place the shim into the recess which would chase grease up the wee hole and into the threaded hole then when you screwed the plug back in there would be no air to destroy the hydraulic locking effect. To remove the shim all that was needed was to remove (actually slackening just enough to let air in was enough) the plug so the hydraulic effect was lost and the shim could be "winkled" out with a small screwdriver.

By the way, as you would imagine, this shim gets quite hot very quickly so, as previously mentioned you have to be careful not to overheat it and so destroy it's hardening - but you are only "kissing" a few thou off it so it's not a major grinding job! But you do need to use HMP grease (high melting point - wheel bearing grease will do) otherwise the grease will melt and get all over your grinding wheel and ruin it. - Guess how I know that!
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Last edited by Pugglt Auld Jock; 12-03-2019 at 11:02.
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Old 12-03-2019   #18
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Re: Valve clearances

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
OK. That could add up. But you may only need a couple? You won't really know until you get stuck in. (Of course, being an "old fart", I tend to think - Motor cycle? that'll be a twin then. Of course yours is more likely to have at least as many valves as the average family car these days!

Being a rather creaky "old fart" I find myself enduring various niggly bodily discomforts which are hardly noticeable during the day when I'm moving around but tend to disturb me at night when lying still for a long time. Last night was one such.

So I found myself turning over and then over again at around 6 am this morning trying to find a comfortable position. Whilst doing this I find my mind thinking about "anything and awething" and I started wondering what I'd done with my old tin of shims? So, this morning, after bringing the empty bins in, I started looking through the chaos which is my garage. I remember the tin well, it's a Condor tobacco tin, couldn't find it though. As Mrs Jock would say, "You've obviously put it in a very safe place" My house and garden is obviously over endowed with "very safe places"! It's been years since I last even handled it - it'll turn up one day when I'm looking for something else I can't find!

The first, and most obvious, place I looked was in the drawer of my tool box where I keep my "special & weird" tools. almost immediately I came across the shim holding tool I had made for me so I could grind shims. I actually had 2 (for different diameters of shim) but this is the only one in the drawer - maybe the other one is keeping the Condor tin company? Anyway I thought you might like to see it:

Attachment 198612

You can see the recess in the end where you put the shim and then you hold it lightly against the side of a grinding wheel and "kiss" off a little metal. The black paint is optional - don't remember spilling paint on it? - In use don't let it get too hot or the shim will loose it's hardness and wear rapidly when in service. (You'll also notice how clean that hand is after two weeks of being forbidden to get "mucky" whilst Mrs J's sister was staying. She went home on Sunday so the finger nails will be back to their usual grubby state soon):

Attachment 198613

The tool works well but does have an inherent problem - there's no way of securing the shim into the end of it! The problem this causes is that, just sometimes, the edge of the shim would pick up on the stone and be "spat out" to disappear at great speed to some place where it could "hide" so you then wasted time looking for it! Annoying at home, loosing bonus time at work. Then one day I was drifting a phosphor bronze (solid) spigot bush out of a flyweel when I had a eureka moment. I was taught to remove spigot bearings by packing them with grease and selecting a punch which is a good fit in the center of the bush, inserting it and hitting it sharply on the end with a hammer. This applies a compressive shock to the grease which, being a liquid, is not compressible so transfers the force to the bearing which, usually, obliges by jumping out of it's hole! I wondered if the reverse might be true?

By the way, if you try this hold a bit of rag round the "business end" of the punch (not the end you hit) unless the punch is an exceptionally good fit in the bush some grease usually squirts out as you hit the punch with the hammer and it's not very good for the complexion - especially if you've got to wait till home time to get a really good wash!

I packed a very small amount of HMP grease into the recess on the shim tool and placed a shim on top, then tried to remove it. By gum was that difficult! What a suction. It worked brilliantly stopping the shim being "spat out" but getting the shim out of the tool took enough time to be annoying. After a little more thought I modified the tool by drilling a small hole down the middle under where the shim fits and then a slightly larger threaded hole in the side which I made a plug for (notice the head of the set screw? Imperial thread - no metric stuff in those days).

Attachment 198614

Attachment 198615

Attachment 198616

The best way to use it I found to be to pack grease into the cavity with the plug removed. Place the shim into the recess which would chase grease up the wee hole and into the threaded hole then when you screwed the plug back in there would be no air to destroy the hydraulic locking effect. To remove the shim all that was needed was to remove (actually slackening just enough to let air in was enough) the plug so the hydraulic effect was lost and the shim could be "winkled" out with a small screwdriver.

By the way, as you would imagine, this shim gets quite hot very quickly so, as previously mentioned you have to be careful not to overheat it and so destroy it's hardening - but you are only "kissing" a few thou off it so it's not a major grinding job! But you do need to use HMP grease (high melting point - wheel bearing grease will do) otherwise the grease will melt and get all over your grinding wheel and ruin it. - Guess how I know that!
The bike in question has 3 cylinders, 4 valves per pot so 12 shims in total but you are right, chances of having to replace all of them are slim, I hope.

Thanks for all the tips, I love to see pictures of home made tools/what people come up with to solve problems,....my first thought were to recess a magnet in the end of that tool, maybe a rare earth one would be strong enough to keep a shim in place whilst at the grinder? Possibly need an hole in the middle of the magnet/the whole thing to be able to poke out the shim when you are done.
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Old 13-03-2019   #19
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Re: Valve clearances

3 cylinders? Not a Triumph is it? I shared a 350 twin, with my flatmate, back in the '60's - until he fell off it on a roundabout. The 'bike, unfortunately suffered frame damage as it collided with a concrete reinforcement. My friend, luckily, missed it and slid down the road for quite some distance on his backside - didn't do his jeans, or backside, any good at all and left me without transport!
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Old 13-03-2019   #20
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Re: Valve clearances

Oh, and I like the magnet idea! Didn't cross my mind all those years ago and I don't know if you could get very strong (neodynium - or a name something like that?) ones in those days? I really lament the passing of Maplins for "stuff" like this. Don't you?

The tool I showed you definitely did "O" series (I worked a lot on Princess, Ambassador and Marina at that time. The engine turned up in vans too) and I think "E" series engines. Trying to remember why I made the other tool (the one I think is keeping the Condor tin company some where in the deepest darkest depths of my garage). I think it was for doing the "straight" engines in the SD1? When they were selling in some quantity we always seemed to have one in the workshop with it's head off!
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Old 14-03-2019   #21
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Re: Valve clearances

My bikes (at least most of them) have two cylinders each and two valves, which are dead easy to set tappet clearances on, 'cos they have a tappet adjusting screw and locknut!.
Vincents Rule!
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Old 28-03-2019   #22
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Re: Valve clearances

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
3 cylinders? Not a Triumph is it? I shared a 350 twin, with my flatmate, back in the '60's - until he fell off it on a roundabout. The 'bike, unfortunately suffered frame damage as it collided with a concrete reinforcement. My friend, luckily, missed it and slid down the road for quite some distance on his backside - didn't do his jeans, or backside, any good at all and left me without transport!
Correct, it is indeed a Triumph.
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