306maxi said:

There’s nothing wrong with saying what you want, but the OP sometimes seems to present opinion as fact.

If you really think I don’t like Fiats then you need to read what I’ve said, in fact you’ll see fewer people more critical of Fiat than jrkitching. Not because he hates Fiats, but because he’s got his eyes open to how things really are and sees the reliability problems which still give Fiat a bad reputation. Have a look at any of the typical reliability surveys and you’ll see that Fiats and Alfa’s just don’t do as well as they should do.

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I was holding out. But no.........you had to get the 1000th hit didn't you?

As for FIAT's share price, there's been a reasonable surge in motor shares recently (and FIAT's doubled over the year) but their growth so far this month looks that little bit spikier than most in percentage terms. Maybe a Great Wall is coming....

306maxi said:

There’s nothing wrong with saying what you want, but the OP sometimes seems to present opinion as fact.



If you really think I don’t like Fiats then you need to read what I’ve said, in fact you’ll see fewer people more critical of Fiat than jrkitching. Not because he hates Fiats, but because he’s got his eyes open to how things really are and sees the reliability problems which still give Fiat a bad reputation. Have a look at any of the typical reliability surveys and you’ll see that Fiats and Alfa’s just don’t do as well as they should do.

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Like you I like Fiats as well - unfortunately though it does seem at times to be a battle to identify and observe the issues and of the brand without it starting to become critical of the poster.

Fiat have made in the past great competitive cars, and still have some middling cars in the current range - the frustrations are though they have not moved forward in over a decade, and the same issues seem to crop up.

Making these points doesn’t mean anyone hates Fiat and is here to slag them off at all, or comparing them to other vehicles because forum users have moved onto a different brand etc....

To sum it up - people who don’t care about Fiat are not on this forum!

JimbbobW1977 said:

Like you I like Fiats as well - unfortunately though it does seem at times to be a battle to identify and observe the issues and of the brand without it starting to become critical of the poster.

Fiat have made in the past great competitive cars, and still have some middling cars in the current range - the frustrations are though they have not moved forward in over a decade, and the same issues seem to crop up.

Making these points doesn’t mean anyone hates Fiat and is here to slag them off at all, or comparing them to other vehicles because forum users have moved onto a different brand etc....

To sum it up - people who don’t care about Fiat are not on this forum!

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Of course criticism of Fiat is definitely good for discussion. However I feel some of the people bringing up this criticism don’t have the most refined intellect in the manner of which they bring it up...

I like Fiat, and i would agree that the company’s management seems to be asleep at the wheel in many regards! If only they would focus more on what they’ve been historically good at, small cars. Really nailing them and storming the market rather than focussing so much on other segments where other brands hold the ribbons!

Perhaps the next 500 / Panda and their succeeding platform is under development somewhere within Fiat and it’ll be a serious contender.

Though I must admit I feel the current latest Panda is just maybe a few modern engine choices away from being just right.

From my standpoint, it’s not really necessary to load it with technology I’d be happy to go from my Dynamic to the current Pop to be honest, a downgrade when you look at the spec sheet but it’s basic, Spartan characteristics really appeal to me. And I see a lot of white Pops where I live in a sea of VAG cars so there’s clearly a customer base that agrees?

Whatever comes next, I wonder if Fiat will keep it basic and functional on the Panda and save the flash features for the 500?

Eklipze3k said:

Can we just lock this threadnaught already? It's been literally the same argument for the last couple of hundred posts.

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Deletion would be a better solution then locking it down.

SB1500 said:

I feel some of the people bringing up this criticism don’t have the most refined intellect in the manner of which they bring it up...

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Frankly, you could try setting a better example by cutting out snide, insulting remarks like that one. Anyone with over 23k posts and 800 thanks on here is entitled to express their point of view, imho, no matter how critical of Fiat and its products their views may be. And anyone who comes onto an internet forum like this and expects it to resemble the perfume counter at Harrods is in for a nasty surprise.

Having said that, over on the Barchetta forum we always play nicely.

And back on topic...

SB1500 said:

the company’s management seems to be asleep at the wheel in many regards! If only they would focus more on what they’ve been historically good at, small cars. Really nailing them and storming the market rather than focussing so much on other segments where other brands hold the ribbons!

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There just isn't the profit margin, or the volume, in the "I just want a basic, functional, spartan car" sector of the market to sustain a major manufacturer of Fiat's size. Sad but true.

gar074 said:

Frankly, you could try setting a better example by cutting out snide, insulting remarks like that one. Anyone with over 23k posts and 800 thanks on here is entitled to express their point of view, imho, no matter how critical of Fiat and its products their views may be. And anyone who comes onto an internet forum like this and expects it to resemble.

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I was referring to 306maxi in case of confusion. However it is exactly snide and insulting remarks I am referring to that are rather unfortunate and unnecessary! That was my point. And I am as entitled to express it as a member on here as much as any other member is. Again, no issue with the criticism of Fiat just believe that it can be put across a bit better.

Very contradicting post really...
- On one hand, you tell me to cut out snide comments but completely overlook other members doing it?

- Then you go on to make snide comments yourself

- And conclude by saying that I should expect no better from the forum?


Any wonder these threads are going down hill.. Call it what you want, but it’s disappointing when my first years on here were nothing but constructive and productive discussion, even where the downsides of Fiat products were concerned.
—
And also, Dacia seem to be doing fairly well on the stripped down low margins products here in the UK at least so I can’t imagine why Fiat couldn’t continue to offer a stripped down Panda or such into the future (just hoping so). The current Pop seems a commercial success even here where most people prefer more appliance like cars!

SB1500 said:

Dacia seem to be doing fairly well on the stripped down low margins products here in the UK at least so I can’t imagine why Fiat couldn’t continue to offer a stripped down Panda or such into the future (just hoping so). The current Pop seems a commercial success even here where most people prefer more appliance like cars!

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Maybe they could use the Autobianchi name for budget versions of models? As you say - Dacia have clearly found a substantial following at that end of the market. I think they also need larger margin models too - as they would really need to sell big numbers of the budget models.

JCarp16 said:

Maybe they could use the Autobianchi name for budget versions of models? As you say - Dacia have clearly found a substantial following at that end of the market. I think they also need larger margin models too - as they would really need to sell big numbers of the budget models.

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I suppose Dacia has the success of Renault behind it too. And part bin and engine options from mid range cars to back it up.

I think the list price of around £9,500 for a Panda Pop puts a lot of people off. Though it widely mentioned on here you could walk away with one at £6,995 easily (especially as Fiat often sell them at that price). I’m not sure why they don’t list it as such all year around.

The Ka+, i10, Viva And other small city cars are all more technology and offer more bang for buck equipment too so taking the current competitors into account, the basic Pop as it’s seen as a £9,500 listed car doesn’t compare well. And I understand whilst I like it a lot, most of your none car loving consumers who often buy these cheaper cars (e.g. my mum!) would probably be more impressed with the long equipment list on the rivals vs the Panda.

I really hope Fiat understand this potential barrier that consumers face. And that they could perhaps come up with a solution.

The 2003 Panda seemed to be a moment of excellence and turned around their troubles. And from what I can tell they’ve had a few models over the decades that have saved them from ruin. I really hope that they can do it again!

SB1500 said:

I suppose Dacia has the success of Renault behind it too. And part bin and engine options from mid range cars to back it up.

I think the list price of around £9,500 for a Panda Pop puts a lot of people off. Though it widely mentioned on here you could walk away with one at £6,995 easily (especially as Fiat often sell them at that price). I’m not sure why they don’t list it as such all year around.

The Ka+, i10, Viva And other small city cars are all more technology and offer more bang for buck equipment too so taking the current competitors into account, the basic Pop as it’s seen as a £9,500 listed car doesn’t compare well. And I understand whilst I like it a lot, most of your none car loving consumers who often buy these cheaper cars (e.g. my mum!) would probably be more impressed with the long equipment list on the rivals vs the Panda.

I really hope Fiat understand this potential barrier that consumers face. And that they could perhaps come up with a solution.

The 2003 Panda seemed to be a moment of excellence and turned around their troubles. And from what I can tell they’ve had a few models over the decades that have saved them from ruin. I really hope that they can do it again!

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I don't think the list prices are as high on mainland Europe. I agree - you can get really good value for money but most won't bother to enquire about discounts or shop around. I've never paid anyway near full price for my Fiats when new. It was harder to get a good deal on the Skoda - but they had a more attractive PCP and service package - which effectively means you're just paying off depreciation and for consumables.
My pre-registered TA lounge with climate pack cost £5k less than list. Which meant I could afford a new car for the price of a used (or the price of a new Sandero).

As mentioned no other profit exists at complete basic bottom of the range what so ever, it’s pointless for manufacturers to do this.

In the case of Dacia Sandero etc strip it back and look at what you have - a car whose chassis can be dated back to the early 90’s and with the 1.2 engine going back to the mid 90’s it’s all very old technology that’s given its money back already.

Ford have recognised this with the latest KA+ - what is essentially the same size as a Fiesta is now an old school stripped back Fiesta based on the early 2000’s and the excellent 1.25 Yamaha designed zetec engine stripped back to be cheaper.

The Panda/500 are unique chassis, not shared with anything else, unlike the one underpinning 500x, Punto, Jeep Renegade, Doblo, Tipo, Jeep Compass, Vauxhall Corsa, Mokka, Chevrolet Trax, 500l - the expense of this one is shared out between brands and companies to bring money in.

AB100 said:

Maybe a Great Wall is coming....

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Maybe you're right - it's gone up another 7% to 23.29 USD!

JCarp16 said:

Maybe you're right - it's gone up another 7% to 23.29 USD!

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Hmmm. Considering they have to recall 1.4 million pickups in the USA and pay for the class-actions that go with it, this seems curious. That said, they've announced heavy investment in USA truck-building which the markets like.

They could perhaps just float Jeep/Dodge separately like they did with Ferrari and thus raise the capital to fund a 3.3m long electric Panda that looks like the Mk1. Who knows.

Maybe Sergio has been patronising his local Asian restaurants in a bid to invigorate speculation and make his final year enjoy a bumper pension-boost.

AB100 said:

Hmmm. Considering they have to recall 1.4 million pickups in the USA and pay for the class-actions that go with it, this seems curious. That said, they've announced heavy investment in USA truck-building which the markets like.



They could perhaps just float Jeep/Dodge separately like they did with Ferrari and thus raise the capital to fund a 3.3m long electric Panda that looks like the Mk1. Who knows.



Maybe Sergio has been patronising his local Asian restaurants in a bid to invigorate speculation and make his final year enjoy a bumper pension-boost.

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That must be where all the would-be R&D money for the next Panda is going!!! Lol

Nah, it should be the next Punto first, lol! [emoji14]

puntofan01 said:

Nah, it should be the next Punto first, lol! [emoji14]

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There will not be a next Punto.
More likely a 5-door 500, or even a new 127 to fill the B-segment.
There could also be a new B-segment Lancia Ypsilon.

I don't really mind what it's called, I just want them to get it right! Oh, and not to make it girly, lol!