With the Panda being build on the same 312 platform as the 500, it's capable to handle something quicker then the 85 hp TA version.
The question is how much truth is in the rumor that the Panda is getting only 3 cylinder engines in the future.
That would mean no 1332cc GSE-Firefly, but a turbo charged 3 cilinder GSE-Firefly.
According to info, the 999cc 3 cylinder GSE-Firefly turbo version would be capable up to 120 hp. (factory Specs)
This also means it wil be technical specked up to lets say 140 hp, because there is always tolerances in the designed layout of the engine.
More likely a 3 cilinder turbo version would have something like 100 hp or so in basic form, making it the perfect replacement for the 85/105 hp TA turbo versions.
And that is wat i'm thinking has been tested in this Orange Panda.

The Pretender said:

With the Panda being build on the same 312 platform as the 500, it's capable to handle something quicker then the 85 hp TA version.
The question is how much truth is in the rumor that the Panda is getting only 3 cylinder engines in the future.
That would mean no 1332cc GSE-Firefly, but a turbo charged 3 cilinder GSE-Firefly.
According to info, the 999cc 3 cylinder GSE-Firefly turbo version would be capable up to 120 hp. (factory Specs)
This also means it wil be technical specked up to lets say 140 hp, because there is always tolerances in the designed layout of the engine.
More likely a 3 cilinder turbo version would have something like 100 hp or so in basic form, making it the perfect replacement for the 85/105 hp TA turbo versions.
And that is wat i'm thinking has been tested in this Orange Panda.

Click to expand...

What evidence do you have if there being a 1,2,3 or 4 cylinder engine being in that car? This is all silly speculation.

306maxi said:

Across Europe, but we’re in the U.K.

The Up sells rather well here in the segment.

As for VW stopping selling the Up, I very much doubt that’s going to happen. VW group strategy is to have a car in every single segment and further to that, to sometimes have a VW, Skoda, Seat and Audi in the same segment. It should be noted that the Panda will sell for a lot less than the Up, hence VW will be making more profit on each car and I suspect more profit in total.

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Tax on German cars is going to be >30% after brexit if rumours from HMG are to be believed so this will be short lived or HMG will make a ton of money.

The Panda Nut said:

Tax on German cars is going to be >30% after brexit if rumours from HMG are to be believed so this will be short lived or HMG will make a ton of money.

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Not going to happen.

We’re going to end up in the EU as we are now, but with no power to influence anything.

Tariffs on cars coming into the U.K. will mean retaliatory tariffs from the EU on cars coming from the U.K. and massive job losses at Honda, Vauxhall, Toyota, Ford, Bentley, Aston Martin, TVR will die instantly, Lotus will probably be gone... etc etc.

306maxi said:

And the Fiat 500 isn’t?

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The 500 is pure Italian style. Even the current 500 model has more style in its sheet metal than anything out of Germany since the original Beetle. And it has the whole Abarth heritage that’s been an excellent reason to bring back to the market. Couple in Fiat’s fantastic ability to build great engines (T-Jet) and Italy’s ability to build authentic and alive sports cars and the Abarth is a given. The 500 Abarth is a no brainer.

I love the Panda, but it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I think adapting it into a commercially successful ‘sports car’ would take a huge amount of investment that might not necessarily pay off for Fiat as its unique and function orientated form (and squircle design philosophy) wouldn’t morph well into something like the Abarth, or say GTI version of the Gold or Focus ST.

Those cars suit it, ‘it’ being stupid looking plastic fittings under the sills, bumpers and bonnets with artificial vents, spoilers that live up to their name... and the most laughable, exhaust notes playing through the speakers! Haha. Well, if it makes the regional manager feel like the CEO I suppose it all serves a purpose. I’d imagine the typical Panda driver is either too old for that none sense or a bit more mature. (Or as you put it, ‘knows nothing about cars). Anyway, just my opinion on sports models..

A performance Panda in its current form, particularly some of the photoshopped ones I’ve seen could be summed up with the term ‘sparkling milk’. Yuck! lol.

SB1500 said:

The 500 is pure Italian style. Even the current 500 model has more style in its sheet metal than anything out of Germany since the original Beetle. And it has the whole Abarth heritage that’s been an excellent reason to bring back to the market. Couple in Fiat’s fantastic ability to build great engines (T-Jet) and Italy’s ability to build authentic and alive sports cars and the Abarth is a given. The 500 Abarth is a no brainer.

I love the Panda, but it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I think adapting it into a commercially successful ‘sports car’ would take a huge amount of investment that might not necessarily pay off for Fiat as its unique and function orientated form (and squircle design philosophy) wouldn’t morph well into something like the Abarth, or say GTI version of the Gold or Focus ST.

Those cars suit it, ‘it’ being stupid looking plastic fittings under the sills, bumpers and bonnets with artificial vents, spoilers that live up to their name... and the most laughable, exhaust notes playing through the speakers! Haha. Well, if it makes the regional manager feel like the CEO I suppose it all serves a purpose. I’d imagine the typical Panda driver is either too old for that none sense or a bit more mature. (Or as you put it, ‘knows nothing about cars). Anyway, just my opinion on sports models..

A performance Panda in its current form, particularly some of the photoshopped ones I’ve seen could be summed up with the term ‘sparkling milk’. Yuck! lol.

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I bet if they stuck a Fiat badge on a Golf or an Up! The you’d absolutely love it.

Neither the Punto or 500 Abarth have a particularly good reputation as performance cars, the 500 does well because of its looks, but that’s about it. Also, if you think that either of them are ‘sports cars’ then your idea of a sports car is pretty different to what most people have...

306maxi said:

I bet if they stuck a Fiat badge on a Golf or an Up! The you’d absolutely love it.



Neither the Punto or 500 Abarth have a particularly good reputation as performance cars, the 500 does well because of its looks, but that’s about it. Also, if you think that either of them are ‘sports cars’ then your idea of a sports car is pretty different to what most people have...

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No! I like the Panda and the 500 because they just don’t look like anything else on the road. To be honest i respect the current Beetle for actually being different too. They aren’t ‘like’ anything else. I admire that personally.

The Abarth 695 Biposto is the worlds smallest supercar! [emoji6]

SB1500 said:

No! I like the Panda and the 500 because they just don’t look like anything else on the road. To be honest i respect the current Beetle for actually being different too. They aren’t ‘like’ anything else. I admire that personally.

The Abarth 695 Biposto is the worlds smallest supercar! [emoji6]

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Lol, you’re on drugs aren’t you? It’s not a supercar at all. 33k for a 500 is just mental and I like my 500.

306maxi said:

Lol, you’re on drugs aren’t you? It’s not a supercar at all. 33k for a 500 is just mental and I like my 500.

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It’s more of a sports car than a Golf GTI.

I haven’t spoken to many of my friends about an Abarth etc but my uncle has a 2016 GTI fully loaded. But when that comes up everybody mutters the same thing... £30,000?! For .. a GOLF?! Lol

Least the Abarth 695 has a real exhaust note. Dog ring gearbox. Proper track features. Course it’s a super car. Might not make people think you’ve got a substantial manhood but how isn’t it a supercar?! Is there a rule that states there’s a minimum horsepower? Does Fiat have to write an application to the Supercar Authority to get approval for the term?

Or, to use your strategy.. “Have you ever driven a 695 Biposto?” [emoji6]

In my books.. more than a 1.2 Panda and £7,000 for any car is excessive! But that’s just me.

SB1500 said:

It’s more of a sports car than a Golf GTI.

I haven’t spoken to many of my friends about an Abarth etc but my uncle has a 2016 GTI fully loaded. But when that comes up everybody mutters the same thing... £30,000?! For .. a GOLF?! Lol

Least the Abarth 695 has a real exhaust note. Dog ring gearbox. Proper track features. Course it’s a super car. Might not make people think you’ve got a substantial manhood but how isn’t it a supercar?! Is there a rule that states there’s a minimum horsepower? Does Fiat have to write an application to the Supercar Authority to get approval for the term?

Or, to use your strategy.. “Have you ever driven a 695 Biposto?” [emoji6]

In my books.. more than a 1.2 Panda and £7,000 for any car is excessive! But that’s just me.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercar

As interesting as the biposto is, it’s not a supercar, you’re going to be laughed at if you keep carrying on like this.

One day you’ll drive something a bit more expensive and you’ll realise what the fuss is all about. Not to say price is everything, but my 3 series is better than any current Fiat on sale these days, it should be for the fact that it probably cost about 35k new.

306maxi said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercar



As interesting as the biposto is, it’s not a supercar, you’re going to be laughed at if you keep carrying on like this.



One day you’ll drive something a bit more expensive and you’ll realise what the fuss is all about. Not to say price is everything, but my 3 series is better than any current Fiat on sale these days, it should be for the fact that it probably cost about 35k new.

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I know there’s better cars out there. Faster, smoother, put together better, 100 times more comfortable, quieter, that move through the air more gracefully... I’m not oblivious.

And I don’t think the Panda or any Fiat is going to rival them in any of those areas.

But you should understand that me and a lot of others on here, we think that these little Fiat’s are good enough. Great actually.

Some of the things you (and most people) say are so bad about Fiat’s - them being slow, cheap, not having the latest technology and luxury fewer urea - are actually good to us. Because we couldn’t be bothered with them!

Yes, I can’t afford anything better myself at the minute. But a lot of guys on here who could drive a much ‘better’ car are still choosing to own a Fiat and I suspect it’s because they also get joy from the simpler things in life. And most of them have given me countless tips and advice on involved mechanical repairs so sure, you can say I know nothing about cars but they certainly do. So the whole ‘we love our FIAT’s” thing isn’t as crazy or laughable as you think.

I get it. You’re impressed by Porsche 911s and what not. So is 90% of the worlds population. Fair enough. That bores me.

For the record I’ve driven faster cars, 1.9 TDIs which are a lot quicker than my Panda. And I’ve been in Range Rover Sports and Mercedes Jeeps and executive cars (not driven) but have experience how comfortable, smooth and quiet and refined they are. And they’re superb.

But to me, if I was to own it I’d be in hell. Because I don’t think sublime luxury, thrill and status is worth the headache, cost and effort required to keep a car like that. That’s just me.

But there are lots of others like me. And to be honest if you keep coming on here and trying to bicker with all of the Fiat fans constantly telling them how poor their cars are, how Fiat is run by idiots (questionable) and trying to make us out as laughable idiots then you’re not going to be popular.

I don’t take any of this personally, and enjoy the whole debate of it all. And as mentioned before, I have nothing better to do! So unless I’m approached by the moderators I’ll probably always respond indefinitely.

What did you join this thread for? Perhaps it’s not for me to judge... but it often it’s updated because:

You know something about the next Panda or think you know something about it

You have something you’d like to see on it (and you’ve laughed at people for sharing those ideas)

You’re interested in buying the next Panda possibly

You have something constructive to say about what’s been said here


I’m not sure why you joined in in the conversation but seems to me you’re just here to stir up pointless debate and every time someone proves you wrong you like to change the parameters of the discussion to ‘Win’ the argument

http://www.evo.co.uk/abarth/500/169...rd-two-seat-hatch-gains-first-limited-edition

Bwahahaha you’re as crackers as the car. 50k for a fully specced up Biposto and it’ll only do 0-60 in 5.9 and you think this is a supercar?!?!?!? There are diesel estates out there that are quicker than this thing.

Supercar? You were embarrassing yourself before, but this takes the cake.

35 grand for a beemer thats five pandas worth so it should really be better however having driven and owned many luxury cars id rather have my panda for everyday driving... and have got something sportier in the garage for weekends.
I think the up/citygo etc look nowhere as nic

sandeel999 said:

35 grand for a beemer thats five pandas worth so it should really be better however having driven and owned many luxury cars id rather have my panda for everyday driving... and have got something sportier in the garage for weekends.
I think the up/citygo etc look nowhere as nic

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We should probably all agree to disagree. "Better" is a subjective word really.

I wouldn't pay £33k for a 500 even if it is quicker to 60 than a £50m Ferrari GTO. Neither has 4 doors nor a basically an invisibility cloak like the Panda (for good and bad reasons) and one of them is considerably beyond my means.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone spending what they want, even though I don't really understand why.

Better to put you money in property though...

sandeel999 said:

35 grand for a beemer thats five pandas worth so it should really be better however having driven and owned many luxury cars id rather have my panda for everyday driving... and have got something sportier in the garage for weekends.
I think the up/citygo etc look nowhere as nic

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I paid less than 1.5 Pandas for my 3 series. For a car that I do 105 miles a day in I wanted it to be comfy in a way that a Panda just couldn’t be due to its form factor. I drove my Panda on this commute for 2 weeks before it died and it was just a horrible car to do the journey in. I had considered getting a Diesel Panda due to the fact they’re cheap and economical, but I don’t regret spending the money on something much comfier.

AB100 said:

We should probably all agree to disagree. "Better" is a subjective word really.

I wouldn't pay £33k for a 500 even if it is quicker to 60 than a £50m Ferrari GTO. Neither has 4 doors nor a basically an invisibility cloak like the Panda (for good and bad reasons) and one of them is considerably beyond my means.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone spending what they want, even though I don't really understand why.

Better to put you money in property though...

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Apart from being smaller and 4wd, there is literally no way in which my Panda was better than my BMW.

SB1500 said:

They won’t make a sporty Panda like the 100hp now as the Abarth brand is aimed at that end of the market. And it’s fairly successful. The Panda would potentially cannibalise sales, or not appeal to the target customers the same way. It’s quite soft and round for a sports orientated model!

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306maxi said:

And the Fiat 500 isn’t?

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It's not that the Panda's soft and round. Let's face it, it's a dumpy, frumpy little beast. The 100HP played well to the sharper lines and cleaner shape of the old model. The current version is just too podgy for that approach to work. It would look ridiculous. And I like Pandas! It's difficult to see a high(er) performance Panda capturing sales from buyers who are not already loyal to the brand - and that's what Fiat needs to do (and what the much cuter, more stylish 500 has done, with spectacular success, for the last decade).

The main issue is that if it’s not warm enough then it won’t sell, if it’s too good then it’ll steal sales from the more profitable 500.

306maxi said:

Apart from being smaller and 4wd, there is literally no way in which my Panda was better than my BMW.

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Cost. Over the long term, you simply can't run a BMW for Panda money. But I wouldn't want to do a long daily commute in a Panda.

Mind you, there's a lot more choice if you're paying 695 money, most of which are both more comfortable and more useable .

Back to topic, the Panda is all about cost; its single most attractive selling feature is value for money. If you buy a new base model and keep it, you might just be looking at the lowest cost/mile for new car ownership, period.

In the UK that's a limited, and shrinking market, in which the Asian brands compete strongly; it's likely just not sufficiently profitable for Fiat to put much effort into targeting that segment.

The real profit is in constructing complex financing packages and selling them to younger folks with disposable income; most are focused on looks and image, and wouldn't recognise a quality car if you served it on a plate with chips & gravy. You can offer them a mediocre car in a pretty wrapper for a convenient monthly payment and most have no idea about the commitment they're making against their future income; it's why Fiat has done so well out of the 500. The Panda has no place in that marketing model.

jrkitching said:

Cost. Over the long term, you simply can't run a BMW for Panda money. But I wouldn't want to do a long daily commute in a Panda.

Mind you, there's a lot more choice if you're paying 695 money, most of which are both more comfortable and more useable .

Back to topic, the Panda is all about cost; its single most attractive selling feature is value for money. If you buy a new base model and keep it, you might just be looking at the lowest cost/mile for new car ownership, period.

In the UK that's a limited, and shrinking market, in which the Asian brands compete strongly; it's likely just not sufficiently profitable for Fiat to put much effort into targeting that segment.

The real profit is in constructing complex financing packages and selling them to younger folks with disposable income; most are focused on looks and image, and wouldn't recognise a quality car if you served it on a plate with chips & gravy. You can offer them a mediocre car in a pretty wrapper for a convenient monthly payment and most have no idea about the commitment they're making against their future income; it's why Fiat has done so well out of the 500. The Panda has no place in that marketing model.

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This idiot (306maxi) is trying to claim that his old BMW box is cheaper to buy / own and whatnot than a Panda... amongst many other brash, anti-Fiat claims beyond belief! One does wonder what he hopes to achieve on these threads ..