You seem to have an inferiority complex if you think that someone with a 10k 4 year old BMW owns their car to impress everyone else! Most of the cars at work are newer and more expensive than mine anyway.
Why do turnips like you think I’m on Fiatforum? Because I don’t like Fiats?
One does wonder..
Didn't you used to be able to get that engine in the Panda 2012? I expect it might be more entertaining in a smaller car...
The most underpowered Astra I've driven was a 1.4 hire car about 12 years ago. We were traveling around farms in Lincolnshire taking samples of soil and crops. I remember trying to overtake someone and it became apparent that I had bitten off more than I could chew - I turned the aircon off in a vain attempt to coax a few more horses out of the bloody thing.Yes - it’s the Fiat engine, albeit in the Panda it had 70bhp the 90bhp was always laggier than 70/75bhp versions. The engine itself used the 1.2 fire as it’s basis. Once going it’s not to bad in the Astra, not fast at all but okay.
They need something that is enjoyable to own and drive. My concern is that you can have a car that does things well but ultimately feels like an appliance. I don't know why this is - but there's a reason we both enjoy using the Panda and, since buying it, both use it more than our other car. On paper the motoring journalists might tell you the other one is a better car - but after a week it's incredibly boring to drive. I guess if we were robots we would all drive the one that was measurably better in numbers, but we're not, we drive what we enjoy - even if it's something we can't put a finger on. Some things are just more than the sum of their parts.
We like having two very different cars in our household because we enjoy that contrast - having said that, my other half says her next car will be a Panda... I'm hoping I can stretch to a Giulia by then ?
You have exactly hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned. I don't doubt the Up clones are competent in most respects but I have looked and considered them and cannot amass even a slight degree of interest in them. Panda makes me both happy and mad (fuel economy) but it has something I cannot identify that makes me smile from ear to ear when i drive it. It seems to have a soul and the 100HP was quite astounding in every way. If I won the lottery I would build a handful new from spares.
The Panda outsells the Up hugely
No it doesn’t! It even gets beaten by the Skoda Citigo.
https://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/SMMT-Motor-Industry-Facts-2017_2-online.pdf
See thread
The number one city car falls short of the Panda
https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=453753
See thread
The number one city car falls short of the Panda
https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=453753
Across Europe, but we’re in the U.K.
The Up sells rather well here in the segment.
As for VW stopping selling the Up, I very much doubt that’s going to happen. VW group strategy is to have a car in every single segment and further to that, to sometimes have a VW, Skoda, Seat and Audi in the same segment. It should be noted that the Panda will sell for a lot less than the Up, hence VW will be making more profit on each car and I suspect more profit in total.
It's more realistic to consider all markets that a car sells in to reduce bias. For example Fords sell really well in the UK but they are a rarer sight in Europe. Yes VW sells a lot more cars - but it's a much bigger company. Only Toyota outsells it globally. So the fact that a smaller company, with less resources can produce a car that outsells the Up globally is relevant. Imagine what they could do with the same amount of cash and resources...Across Europe, but we’re in the U.K.
The Up sells rather well here in the segment.
As for VW stopping selling the Up, I very much doubt that’s going to happen. VW group strategy is to have a car in every single segment and further to that, to sometimes have a VW, Skoda, Seat and Audi in the same segment. It should be noted that the Panda will sell for a lot less than the Up, hence VW will be making more profit on each car and I suspect more profit in total.
Panda outsells the Up globally.
It's more realistic to consider all markets that a car sells in to reduce bias. For example Fords sell really well in the UK but they are a rarer sight in Europe. Yes VW sells a lot more cars - but it's a much bigger company. Only Toyota outsells it globally. So the fact that a smaller company, with less resources can produce a car that outsells the Up globally is relevant. Imagine what they could do with the same amount of cash and resources...
Toyota doesn’t outsell VW....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertel...l-automakers-psa-out-daimler-in/#f3db16f1a8b3
You also don’t have global sales figures for the Up or the Panda, so you can’t make that claim. VW are in far more markets globally than Fiat are. The important thing is profit, VW make vastly more profit.
http://www.thedrive.com/news/8575/volkswagen-ag-posts-record-profit-for-2016
Have a look for what FCA’s profit for 2016 was and compare it to the profits of some of the individual VAG companies.
FCA could do better if they had more money, but they don’t have more money because the product isn’t what people want and they don’t sell as well.
If you're so obsessed about profit why don't you compare Toyota vs VW profit margins? On one hand you argue they're number 1 (using figures from last summer) on the other you say profit is most important. FCA profit margins are partly affected by the fact that they are continuously paying off debt and aiming to be debt free by the end of next year. In order to invest in product you need cash - German automakers are cash rich partly because they own their own finance companies plus they had that cartel going for a while which didn't hurt their margins either...Toyota doesn’t outsell VW....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertel...l-automakers-psa-out-daimler-in/#f3db16f1a8b3
You also don’t have global sales figures for the Up or the Panda, so you can’t make that claim. VW are in far more markets globally than Fiat are. The important thing is profit, VW make vastly more profit.
http://www.thedrive.com/news/8575/volkswagen-ag-posts-record-profit-for-2016
Have a look for what FCA’s profit for 2016 was and compare it to the profits of some of the individual VAG companies.
FCA could do better if they had more money, but they don’t have more money because the product isn’t what people want and they don’t sell as well.
The Panda as a product is clearly what more people want vs the Up. Hence how it out sells it. Consistently.
Where the two cars sell in the same markets. In South America Fiat sells different models designed for that specific market (where VW sells the Up). But from a European standpoint almost twice as many cars is still an achievement.The stats say Europe, let’s not stretch further than we actually know.
Like I said, the Up and it’s cohorts outsell the Panda in the U.K.
The fact that VW have just released an Up GTI suggests that VW aren’t done with the segment.