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Old 02-12-2015   #31
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

Quote Originally Posted by Mercky View Post
Not restarting is an actual fault rather then a weakness of the system, sounds like clutch switch is dodgy. Other misbehaviour is generally down to the battery either needing a charge or replacement - they need to be 100% for SS to work properly, after that there is lots of conditions that it won't work under, ie, AC on high etc.
The basic problem is that the s/s needs to make a single decision whether or not to kill the engine. If it decides 'yes' then come what may it must have a go at the second part of the cycle which is to attempt a restart. It makes absolutely no sense to make a second decision for the restart. Any doubts need to be eliminated before the shut-down.

BMW (and others) have gotten this to work on 6 cylinders and 3 litres and even larger engines and (in the case of my wife's car) even with a battery which is definitely on its last legs.

So I'm afraid it's a big FAIL on this one, FIAT :-(

I wonder if the Panda would have been in the next tax band up if the s/s were not in operations for its emissions test...?
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Old 03-12-2015   #32
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

It's clear that s/s gives some owners real hassle, but there are many who have no issues at all, or have had none since getting the system sorted out (which is my experience). Like so many of the non-essential complications that bedevil cars these days it offers marginal gains but multiple opportunities for something to go wrong, or resist the dealers' attempts to put them right.
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Old 18-02-2016   #33
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

I've recently bought a TA Duologic after owning a 1.2 for a couple of years from new. The new car is just over 2 years old, so I asked the dealer to make sure the S/S worked before I bought it.
Its worked perfectly for the past 3 weeks, but now it doesn't stay off for long. About 30-60 seconds depending on if the head lights are on or not. This seems to have coincided with the colder weather, so I think the battery is out of (the notorisly fussy) spec for the S/S to have confidence that it will start again.
My question is, does anyone know the voltage level that triggers a restart? I've just bought a voltmeter that fits into the cigarette lighter, so I can check the levels on the move.
With the engine off, it shows around 11.8v, after starting it hovers between 12.5 and 12.7v, regardless of engine RPM. I think the voltage is stabilized through the 12v outlet, so I'm not (yet!) worried that it doesn't get closer to 14v when reved. What I need to know is what's an acceptable time for the voltage to drop to the point at which it restarts and what that voltage is.
I know that the dealer had the car for at least 4 months, so I'm guessing that the battery, whilst perfectly capable of starting the car in virtually any normal situation, has fallen out of spec for the S/S system to work properly.
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Old 18-02-2016   #34
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

Quote Originally Posted by WoollyPanda View Post
I know that the dealer had the car for at least 4 months, so I'm guessing that the battery, whilst perfectly capable of starting the car in virtually any normal situation, has fallen out of spec for the S/S system to work properly.
You guess correctly. 11.8V when at rest is a sure sign of an ageing battery.

The only lasting cure is to fit a new battery of the correct specification.

Even if it's perfectly capable of starting the car, running with an old battery wastes fuel, since the self discharge rates are higher and the alternator has to work harder to maintain battery charge.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 18-02-2016 at 19:54.
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Old 18-02-2016   #35
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

I've never put a meter on by battery with engine running,
I'd conventionally be looking as a dodgy alternator with sub 13 V values

that IS food for thought...,
some owners have stated just removing negative cable for 30 mins ( NOT charging battery) restores S/S function..,

having lots of stored fault codes cleared fixed mine

Charlie - Punto TA
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Old 18-02-2016   #36
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I might have jumped the gun with those numbers! I only started it and revved it a bit. On the way home from work this evening (headlights on) I got some interesting figures.
At idle, it averaged 13.8-14v. On the overrun, when breaking it could go up to 14.8v, I think this is a form of energy recovery thing K when breaking, the alternator puts out maximum voltage to create a bit of extra engine braking whilst giving maximum charge to the battery) but most importantly, when the engine shut off it would drop to 12.8-13v, but immediately start dropping VERY quickly. It would lose about 0.1v per second, which meant it got down to 11.8-12v in about 10 sec, at which point the engine would start.
I shall do the tests again tomorrow morning with the headlights off. I still think it's a tired battery but would be interested in people's comments on the revised figures.
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Old 19-02-2016   #37
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

Am I the only one on here who's (a) not bothered whether my wretched StartStop works or not, and (b) a bit concerned about the wisdom of taking readings while on the move?
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Old 19-02-2016   #38
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

Quote Originally Posted by gar074 View Post
Am I the only one on here who's (a) not bothered whether my wretched StartStop works or not, and (b) a bit concerned about the wisdom of taking readings while on the move?
No
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Old 19-02-2016   #39
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

Quote Originally Posted by gar074 View Post
Am I the only one on here who's (a) not bothered whether my wretched StartStop works or not, and (b) a bit concerned about the wisdom of taking readings while on the move?
It's basically pointless here because the only time I'm stationary in heavy traffic, I'm waiting for a tram or train. Heavy traffic tends to mean you're creeping forward which, of course, negates the stopstartthingy.

To be honest, if I was in traffic that made the thing useful, I'd be riding my bike or catching a bus (and I loathe public transport in all its forms).
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Old 19-02-2016   #40
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

Here are the figures for when driving with the headlights off. As soon as the engine switches off it drops from typically 14.2v to 13-12.8v and then proceeds to drop at a rate of about 0.1v every two seconds. Giving at the most, 30 seconds before the engine restarts.
I think this just confirms that the battery isn't up to scratch, and this was more than likely caused by it being unused for 4 months.

And in reply to MN500. A) Judging by the number of replies and viewings of this thread, I'd say that there a LOT of people interested if their Start/Stop works or not, and that includes yourself, as you wouldn't have opened the thread. B) Apart from a momentary glance when driving (no longer than when checking any other of the numerous gauges, mirrors and accessories), all of the reading were taken when the vehicle was stationary. I do sincerely hope this allays your concerns.
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Old 19-02-2016   #41
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

Quote Originally Posted by WoollyPanda View Post
Here are the figures for when driving with the headlights off. As soon as the engine switches off it drops from typically 14.2v to 13-12.8v and then proceeds to drop at a rate of about 0.1v every two seconds. Giving at the most, 30 seconds before the engine restarts.

I think this just confirms that the battery isn't up to scratch, and this was more than likely caused by it being unused for 4 months.



And in reply to MN500. A) Judging by the number of replies and viewings of this thread, I'd say that there a LOT of people interested if their Start/Stop works or not, and that includes yourself, as you wouldn't have opened the thread. B) Apart from a momentary glance when driving (no longer than when checking any other of the numerous gauges, mirrors and accessories), all of the reading were taken when the vehicle was stationary. I do sincerely hope this allays your concerns.

Indeed, the self righteous brigade. I would say your battery is duff or there is something pulling it down but more likely the battery, mine does the same as do many others and my car was a fresh delivery from the factory but who knows how long they were hanging around before been put in the car. Lead acid batteries don't like the cold so if it's a bit iffy it'll definitely act up in cold weather, mine is fine April to November!
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Old 19-02-2016   #42
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Panda Start Stop Fix

Mine's fine

Lots of love,
The self-righteous Brigade
Xxx
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Last edited by MickG; 19-02-2016 at 21:15.
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Old 20-02-2016   #43
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

I'd like it to work, simply because it is in the spec for the vehicle, so it should. However it is not to be trusted so i don't bother. Everyone knows my view on how flawed FIAT's s/s system is, so I won't bang on too much again!

if FIAT and others are insistent that the system is indeed fine and it is duff batteries, say, at the heart of the problem, then I'd like to see a software fix that has the s/s system send a message to the dashboard to explain to the driver that it can't enter the stop part of the cycle as it has detected a duff battery. That would be a useful message indeed and one that could be read by the garage when the car is in for its service.

Alternatively buy in the same system that BMW use
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Old 20-02-2016   #44
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Panda Start Stop Fix

Quote Originally Posted by 4x4Panda View Post
I'd like it to work, simply because it is in the spec for the vehicle, so it should. However it is not to be trusted so i don't bother. Everyone knows my view on how flawed FIAT's s/s system is, so I won't bang on too much again!



if FIAT and others are insistent that the system is indeed fine and it is duff batteries, say, at the heart of the problem, then I'd like to see a software fix that has the s/s system send a message to the dashboard to explain to the driver that it can't enter the stop part of the cycle as it has detected a duff battery. That would be a useful message indeed and one that could be read by the garage when the car is in for its service.



Alternatively buy in the same system that BMW use

They need to supply better quality batteries in their cars or lower the sensitivity of the software / IBS by a few 100 millivolts or preferably both! I'd like mine to work consistently too, it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside when stopped in traffic for 3 mins causing zero emissions!
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Old 20-02-2016   #45
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Re: Panda Start Stop Fix

Quote Originally Posted by 4x4Panda View Post

Alternatively buy in the same system that BMW use
what system do they use to crank their sub 900cc twins,

mm - BMWMotorrad
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