ambient white
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Turned it off when I picked up the car, that and the ECO button are just decorations.
Me too!
Technical Panda Start Stop Fix
- Thread starter Dunturin
- Start date
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Technical Panda Start Stop Fix
Me too!
babbo_umbro
Established member
Eco's a waste of time but I don't quite agree on Stop/start - I rarely get stuck in traffic but have generally found that it works quite well when I am, though it becomes tedious if the queue keeps going forward a few feet every few seconds. It's fine when stopped at lights in town or when the traffic moves in reasonable chunks, as it were. It misbehaved initially on my 4x4 TA when it was new, two and a bit years ago, the dealer swapped the battery and it's worked with no problems since then.
quotethepigeon
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you've only gone and bloody fixed me stop/start!
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Mine SS only works on Mondays!
Normally I use my car back and forth to work around central London and a few longer trips out at the weekend.
So Mondays it's battery is topped up and works ok all day.
Tuesday is may work once or twice.
Then the rest of the week nothing until I give it a run out and top up the battery again.
Frankly I can live without it, particularly now it's feckin' cold in the mornings and I want the bugger to pump out hot air as fast as it can, but I do notice a couple of mpg difference when it does work for a while.
Normally I use my car back and forth to work around central London and a few longer trips out at the weekend.
So Mondays it's battery is topped up and works ok all day.
Tuesday is may work once or twice.
Then the rest of the week nothing until I give it a run out and top up the battery again.
Frankly I can live without it, particularly now it's feckin' cold in the mornings and I want the bugger to pump out hot air as fast as it can, but I do notice a couple of mpg difference when it does work for a while.
Hi all - (haven't posted on here for a while...)
I still have my 2013 4x4 and stopped using the start/stop what seems like months ago. Int is simply not worth the intense annoyance and safety risk of not knowing if the car will restart itself.
Even though I reported earlier a fix by the supplying dealer, since then it became intermittent again.
I really think the system has been very poorly calibrated and it is rather tiresome that FIAT won't acknowledge the problem.
As the car starts perfectly 'manually' every time after the s/s system decides it can't have a go, this means the s/s system has been incorrectly set up by the manufacturer. Simple really. Otherwise at least one of those manual starts should by now also have failed.
Aside from that, I love most other aspects of the car! I won't gripe further about the fuel economy - an average of 33.9 is I suppose at least a match for my Mrs' 3litre BMW X3 over similar driving conditions. So, well done FIAT - its a start / nice first effort! I wonder though if FIAT would sell quite so many T/As if they were in the same car-tax band as that BMW? I suspect not. (Oops, sorry, did that read as a gripe?...)
Back to the s/s issues: I really should email 'Honest John' from the Telegraph Cars / Motoring section. If someone like him - normally a huge FIAT 4x4 fan - saw the problem, its just possible that FIAT might prick up its ears.
all the best
I still have my 2013 4x4 and stopped using the start/stop what seems like months ago. Int is simply not worth the intense annoyance and safety risk of not knowing if the car will restart itself.
Even though I reported earlier a fix by the supplying dealer, since then it became intermittent again.
I really think the system has been very poorly calibrated and it is rather tiresome that FIAT won't acknowledge the problem.
As the car starts perfectly 'manually' every time after the s/s system decides it can't have a go, this means the s/s system has been incorrectly set up by the manufacturer. Simple really. Otherwise at least one of those manual starts should by now also have failed.
Aside from that, I love most other aspects of the car! I won't gripe further about the fuel economy - an average of 33.9 is I suppose at least a match for my Mrs' 3litre BMW X3 over similar driving conditions. So, well done FIAT - its a start / nice first effort! I wonder though if FIAT would sell quite so many T/As if they were in the same car-tax band as that BMW? I suspect not. (Oops, sorry, did that read as a gripe?...)
Back to the s/s issues: I really should email 'Honest John' from the Telegraph Cars / Motoring section. If someone like him - normally a huge FIAT 4x4 fan - saw the problem, its just possible that FIAT might prick up its ears.
all the best
Hi all - (haven't posted on here for a while...)
I still have my 2013 4x4 and stopped using the start/stop what seems like months ago. Int is simply not worth the intense annoyance and safety risk of not knowing if the car will restart itself.
Even though I reported earlier a fix by the supplying dealer, since then it became intermittent again.
I really think the system has been very poorly calibrated and it is rather tiresome that FIAT won't acknowledge the problem.
As the car starts perfectly 'manually' every time after the s/s system decides it can't have a go, this means the s/s system has been incorrectly set up by the manufacturer. Simple really. Otherwise at least one of those manual starts should by now also have failed.
Aside from that, I love most other aspects of the car! I won't gripe further about the fuel economy - an average of 33.9 is I suppose at least a match for my Mrs' 3litre BMW X3 over similar driving conditions. So, well done FIAT - its a start / nice first effort! I wonder though if FIAT would sell quite so many T/As if they were in the same car-tax band as that BMW? I suspect not. (Oops, sorry, did that read as a gripe?...)
Back to the s/s issues: I really should email 'Honest John' from the Telegraph Cars / Motoring section. If someone like him - normally a huge FIAT 4x4 fan - saw the problem, its just possible that FIAT might prick up its ears.
all the best
You're not alone. My car behaves exactly the same as yours.
I too have given up trying to get it fixed. 5 or 6 days in total at the dealers with the same result every time "There's nothing wrong with it!"
The last straw was when they gave me a photocopy of 'how stop/start works'
So now it's permanently disabled. I would imaging the savings made would be substantially less than the cost of fuel used so far taking the car back and forth to the dealer trying to get it fixed.
If you do tell Honest John, I have a stack of videos showing the problem in action.
Not restarting is an actual fault rather then a weakness of the system, sounds like clutch switch is dodgy. Other misbehaviour is generally down to the battery either needing a charge or replacement - they need to be 100% for SS to work properly, after that there is lots of conditions that it won't work under, ie, AC on high etc.
I have actually found 2 good uses for the eco button.
1, whenever you let someone else use the car (my lead footed wife for instance). Stealthily engage eco before they take it. Save some petrol!
2, use eco for a few days, then when you switch back out of it, revel in that rush of extra power and feel like you have a new car again!
The clutch switch has been ruled out. The car should restart when you press the clutch, or if the speed of the car increases above something like 3mph.
When my restart is failing, I can roll from a standstill to my hearts content and all the servo assistance of the brakes is used up. That's a lot of fun!
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I have actually found 2 good uses for the eco button.
1, whenever you let someone else use the car (my lead footed wife for instance). Stealthily engage eco before they take it. Save some petrol!
2, use eco for a few days, then when you switch back out of it, revel in that rush of extra power and feel like you have a new car again!
The clutch switch has been ruled out. The car should restart when you press the clutch, or if the speed of the car increases above something like 3mph.
When my restart is failing, I can roll from a standstill to my hearts content and all the servo assistance of the brakes is used up. That's a lot of fun!
Hmm ok, sounds like a more sinister issue alright. At least you can have it off without the annoying light on the speedo
. It behaves ok in my 500 until the temp drops then it does the restart after 10 secs thing which is down to the battery not being tip top. I'm using Eco regulary now that my car has fully run in, doesent save any fuel really but it does make for a smooth drive around town - I quite like it, feels similar to a 1.2 in fact and yes you do have the novelty of switching back to normal mode and having a new zippy car!Hmm ok, sounds like a more sinister issue alright. At least you can have it off without the annoying light on the speedo
All part of the higher spec when you upgrade!
The basic problem is that the s/s needs to make a single decision whether or not to kill the engine. If it decides 'yes' then come what may it must have a go at the second part of the cycle which is to attempt a restart. It makes absolutely no sense to make a second decision for the restart. Any doubts need to be eliminated before the shut-down.
BMW (and others) have gotten this to work on 6 cylinders and 3 litres and even larger engines and (in the case of my wife's car) even with a battery which is definitely on its last legs.
So I'm afraid it's a big FAIL on this one, FIAT :-(
I wonder if the Panda would have been in the next tax band up if the s/s were not in operations for its emissions test...?
babbo_umbro
Established member
It's clear that s/s gives some owners real hassle, but there are many who have no issues at all, or have had none since getting the system sorted out (which is my experience). Like so many of the non-essential complications that bedevil cars these days it offers marginal gains but multiple opportunities for something to go wrong, or resist the dealers' attempts to put them right.
WoollyPanda
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I've recently bought a TA Duologic after owning a 1.2 for a couple of years from new. The new car is just over 2 years old, so I asked the dealer to make sure the S/S worked before I bought it.
Its worked perfectly for the past 3 weeks, but now it doesn't stay off for long. About 30-60 seconds depending on if the head lights are on or not. This seems to have coincided with the colder weather, so I think the battery is out of (the notorisly fussy) spec for the S/S to have confidence that it will start again.
My question is, does anyone know the voltage level that triggers a restart? I've just bought a voltmeter that fits into the cigarette lighter, so I can check the levels on the move.
With the engine off, it shows around 11.8v, after starting it hovers between 12.5 and 12.7v, regardless of engine RPM. I think the voltage is stabilized through the 12v outlet, so I'm not (yet!) worried that it doesn't get closer to 14v when reved. What I need to know is what's an acceptable time for the voltage to drop to the point at which it restarts and what that voltage is.
I know that the dealer had the car for at least 4 months, so I'm guessing that the battery, whilst perfectly capable of starting the car in virtually any normal situation, has fallen out of spec for the S/S system to work properly.
Its worked perfectly for the past 3 weeks, but now it doesn't stay off for long. About 30-60 seconds depending on if the head lights are on or not. This seems to have coincided with the colder weather, so I think the battery is out of (the notorisly fussy) spec for the S/S to have confidence that it will start again.
My question is, does anyone know the voltage level that triggers a restart? I've just bought a voltmeter that fits into the cigarette lighter, so I can check the levels on the move.
With the engine off, it shows around 11.8v, after starting it hovers between 12.5 and 12.7v, regardless of engine RPM. I think the voltage is stabilized through the 12v outlet, so I'm not (yet!) worried that it doesn't get closer to 14v when reved. What I need to know is what's an acceptable time for the voltage to drop to the point at which it restarts and what that voltage is.
I know that the dealer had the car for at least 4 months, so I'm guessing that the battery, whilst perfectly capable of starting the car in virtually any normal situation, has fallen out of spec for the S/S system to work properly.
You guess correctly. 11.8V when at rest is a sure sign of an ageing battery.
The only lasting cure is to fit a new battery of the correct specification.
Even if it's perfectly capable of starting the car, running with an old battery wastes fuel, since the self discharge rates are higher and the alternator has to work harder to maintain battery charge.
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I've never put a meter on by battery with engine running,
I'd conventionally be looking as a dodgy alternator with sub 13 V values
that IS food for thought...,
some owners have stated just removing negative cable for 30 mins ( NOT charging battery) restores S/S function..,
having lots of stored fault codes cleared fixed mine:bang:
Charlie - Punto TA
I'd conventionally be looking as a dodgy alternator with sub 13 V values
that IS food for thought...,
some owners have stated just removing negative cable for 30 mins ( NOT charging battery) restores S/S function..,
having lots of stored fault codes cleared fixed mine:bang:
Charlie - Punto TA
WoollyPanda
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I might have jumped the gun with those numbers! I only started it and revved it a bit. On the way home from work this evening (headlights on) I got some interesting figures.
At idle, it averaged 13.8-14v. On the overrun, when breaking it could go up to 14.8v, I think this is a form of energy recovery thing K when breaking, the alternator puts out maximum voltage to create a bit of extra engine braking whilst giving maximum charge to the battery) but most importantly, when the engine shut off it would drop to 12.8-13v, but immediately start dropping VERY quickly. It would lose about 0.1v per second, which meant it got down to 11.8-12v in about 10 sec, at which point the engine would start.
I shall do the tests again tomorrow morning with the headlights off. I still think it's a tired battery but would be interested in people's comments on the revised figures.
At idle, it averaged 13.8-14v. On the overrun, when breaking it could go up to 14.8v, I think this is a form of energy recovery thing K when breaking, the alternator puts out maximum voltage to create a bit of extra engine braking whilst giving maximum charge to the battery) but most importantly, when the engine shut off it would drop to 12.8-13v, but immediately start dropping VERY quickly. It would lose about 0.1v per second, which meant it got down to 11.8-12v in about 10 sec, at which point the engine would start.
I shall do the tests again tomorrow morning with the headlights off. I still think it's a tired battery but would be interested in people's comments on the revised figures.
gar074
Prominent member
Am I the only one on here who's (a) not bothered whether my wretched StartStop works or not, and (b) a bit concerned about the wisdom of taking readings while on the move?
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No
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It's basically pointless here because the only time I'm stationary in heavy traffic, I'm waiting for a tram or train. Heavy traffic tends to mean you're creeping forward which, of course, negates the stopstartthingy.
To be honest, if I was in traffic that made the thing useful, I'd be riding my bike or catching a bus (and I loathe public transport in all its forms).
WoollyPanda
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Here are the figures for when driving with the headlights off. As soon as the engine switches off it drops from typically 14.2v to 13-12.8v and then proceeds to drop at a rate of about 0.1v every two seconds. Giving at the most, 30 seconds before the engine restarts.
I think this just confirms that the battery isn't up to scratch, and this was more than likely caused by it being unused for 4 months.
And in reply to MN500. A) Judging by the number of replies and viewings of this thread, I'd say that there a LOT of people interested if their Start/Stop works or not, and that includes yourself, as you wouldn't have opened the thread. B) Apart from a momentary glance when driving (no longer than when checking any other of the numerous gauges, mirrors and accessories), all of the reading were taken when the vehicle was stationary. I do sincerely hope this allays your concerns.
I think this just confirms that the battery isn't up to scratch, and this was more than likely caused by it being unused for 4 months.
And in reply to MN500. A) Judging by the number of replies and viewings of this thread, I'd say that there a LOT of people interested if their Start/Stop works or not, and that includes yourself, as you wouldn't have opened the thread. B) Apart from a momentary glance when driving (no longer than when checking any other of the numerous gauges, mirrors and accessories), all of the reading were taken when the vehicle was stationary. I do sincerely hope this allays your concerns.
