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Old 01-06-2014   #16
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Perhaps not a fantastic solution, but if any of you people suffering from issues use regular unleaded, it might be worth trying a few tanks of Shell V-Power or equivalent premium fuel?

I am convinced that it provides a little bit more poke when pulling away, I thought as much when we used to have our 1.2 500.
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Old 01-06-2014   #17
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

As you can see on my rolling road printout the new engine has no low-down torque. The rolling road operator, who had not driven the car before, found it very difficult to get the car to pull up the small ramp on to the rollers. No amount of 'pixie dust' is going to improve this. The 09 car just idled in 5th gear, on the new car he had to go right through the gear box to get the rollers to spin up, hence the trace for the new car starts at a later point.
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Old 02-06-2014   #18
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Quote Originally Posted by David Bliss View Post
As you can see on my rolling road printout the new engine has no low-down torque. The rolling road operator, who had not driven the car before, found it very difficult to get the car to pull up the small ramp on to the rollers. No amount of 'pixie dust' is going to improve this. The 09 car just idled in 5th gear, on the new car he had to go right through the gear box to get the rollers to spin up, hence the trace for the new car starts at a later point.
If it's just the mapping that's changed, a remap would make it excactly the same or more likely better than the older 69bhp engines.
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Old 02-06-2014   #19
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Hi I have a brand new 500 1.2 only done 200 miles and I notice that to
pull away I need to put the revs above 2000, then it will pull quickly.

any lower revs and it really doesn't want to go, however I have to reverse off my driveway and you can do that at normal revs no problem at all.

Still truly love the car thou, must admit to being surprised how good the
500 1.2 is.
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Old 02-06-2014   #20
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Quote Originally Posted by Officina red View Post
Hi I have a brand new 500 1.2 only done 200 miles and I notice that to
pull away I need to put the revs above 2000, then it will pull quickly.

any lower revs and it really doesn't want to go, however I have to reverse off my driveway and you can do that at normal revs no problem at all.

Still truly love the car thou, must admit to being surprised how good the
500 1.2 is.
Hello..
I have a panda pop 1.2 13 plate with 3000 miles on the clock and agree with you concerning the revs for quicker pull off.Ive had the panda about 6 weeks now and unless i get the revs just right i either kangaroo jump,race the clutch or on occasions stall.Ive never driven a car where you have to get the revs just right so that theres a smooth transition between first and second like this panda demands.Lately ive just been looking at the rev counter when changing,from first to second rather than trying to feel the clutch like every other car ive driven or owned.
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Old 02-06-2014   #21
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Quote Originally Posted by Super Uwe View Post
Perhaps not a fantastic solution, but if any of you people suffering from issues use regular unleaded, it might be worth trying a few tanks of Shell V-Power or equivalent premium fuel?

I am convinced that it provides a little bit more poke when pulling away, I thought as much when we used to have our 1.2 500.

I agree. On 95 octane, my 1.2 is less efficient and returns about 48mpg. On higher octane fuel such as v-power it returns 50+mpg.


I do also find that it can kangaroo first thing if I cold start it and try to drive away immediately. After it warms up a little, it doesn't kangaroo at all.
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Old 03-06-2014   #22
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Quote Originally Posted by 306maxi View Post
If it's just the mapping that's changed, a remap would make it excactly the same or more likely better than the older 69bhp engines.
I have been told that it cannot be re-mapped either by Fiat or third parties, due to algorithms in the Fiat software that reset the mapping back to the original after each cycle.
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Old 03-06-2014   #23
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Welcome to the real world. These are some of the lame duck excuses being given for the lack of throttle response and low down engine torque:

  • The car is heavier. (This should not affect the engine so markedly)
  • Emission regulations. (Our new car uses more petrol than the 09 car and the rolling road shows a lower air to fuel ratio, it definitely does not look greener!).
  • The car is not run in. (I agree that it helps when things free up, but the engine mapping is not affected.)

I would appreciate some informed comments from those with the appropriate technical expertise and not like Fiat's attitude that seems to be 'Well, if the car has a flat tyre, just move forword and move the flat bit to the top'.
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Old 05-06-2014   #24
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Wood View Post
I have a new Panda 1.2, 69 bhp "Lounge" that has now covered 800 miles. The car is reluctant to initially accelerate in first or second gear and it feels as if the engine has a "flat spot". The garage tell me that if I have had an earlier Panda, which I have, then I will notice a difference in acceleration due to changes in performance brought about by EU legislation!! Could that be the case or could the ECU be at fault? If the ECU is not at fault, can it be re-mapped or chipped to improve performance?

I have two Panda's that had the same problem, both went into the garage and they had them for two days. In the end a Fiat Tech came down and remapped the ECU, problem solved, they do know there is a problem with them and it is a simple fix. Crawley Down garage in West Sussex are my Fiat dealer
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Old 05-06-2014   #25
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Wood View Post
I have a new Panda 1.2, 69 bhp "Lounge" that has now covered 800 miles. The car is reluctant to initially accelerate in first or second gear and it feels as if the engine has a "flat spot". The garage tell me that if I have had an earlier Panda, which I have, then I will notice a difference in acceleration due to changes in performance brought about by EU legislation!! Could that be the case or could the ECU be at fault? If the ECU is not at fault, can it be re-mapped or chipped to improve performance?
I have two Panda's that had the same problem, both went into the garage and they had them for two days. In the end a Fiat Tech came down and remapped the ECU, problem solved, they do know there is a problem with them and it is a simple fix. Crawley Down garage in West Sussex are my Fiat dealer.
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Old 05-06-2014   #26
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Quote Originally Posted by Goudrons View Post
The Mrs's Lounge 1.2 does this, it was built in Jan this year and done 800 miles as well.
The same engine in the mother in laws 2010 plate (older model) doesn't and never done it and it's the same engine.

I think the ECU software has been "reviewed" (buggered about with) at some point to try and reduce fuel/emissions when setting off, as this is when it's likely to use more fuel and stink up the air.

It has improved slightly the the last few weeks, it isn't as noticable, but that maybe due to the fact we're getting used to it.

Remapping (re writing the ECU software) may sort it, but I'd ring a few service departments first, one may have solved this on their own as it seems quite a common issue.

I have two Panda's that had the same problem,a first gear flat spot, both went into the garage and they had them for two days. In the end a Fiat Tech came down and remapped the ECU, problem solved, they do know there is a problem with them and it is a simple fix. Crawley Down garage in West Sussex are my Fiat dealer.
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Old 05-06-2014   #27
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Quote Originally Posted by 306maxi View Post
I suspect your mother in law has the old 60bhp unit and not the newer 69bhp one in the Panda and 500
I have two Panda's that had the same problem, 2012 1.2 old model, first gear flat spot, both went into the garage and they had them for two days. In the end a Fiat Tech came down and remapped the ECU, problem solved, they do know there is a problem with them and it is a simple fix. Crawley Down garage in West Sussex are my Fiat dealer
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Old 05-06-2014   #28
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

We've had ours for 8 weeks now, and it was definitely noticeable at the start.
However as we've got some miles (1400) on it the engine has loosened up a lot and now its quite smooth. also the performance seems to be getting better, I can hustle it around town nearly as quick as my 500.
I remember the 500 being tight when it was new and it took the best part of 5000 miles to feel totally free running.
On another note - do the ECU's have some kind of running in protocols programmed in?
My BMW bike wouldn't let you rev over a certain point until it had 1000k on the clock. I only ask because when the Panda was new there was the letter "H" displayed on the dash next to the milometer. I looked in the hand book an couldn't find a reference to it and thought I'd ask the dealer some time. after about 200 mile the "H" disappeared and the car felt like it wanted to rev out a lot more freely. It felt just like the bike.??
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Old 07-06-2014   #29
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Doesn't anybody look at the test readout I posted? If there was anything in the ECU to stop the engine from reving or using full power it would not have allowed us to get to the 6500 revs and produce more brake horsepower than they claim in the book. Yesterday we had a visitor with a 500, she has done 35000 miles in the car and still has the problem.

A challenge: To all you boys with smooth well run in cars, that do not seem to have a problem. I'll pit my 09 Panda against yours anyday!
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Last edited by David Bliss; 07-06-2014 at 10:48. Reason: missing word
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Old 07-06-2014   #30
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Re: Panda 1.2 (69bhp) Flat Spot

Quote Originally Posted by muttleysdad View Post
My BMW bike wouldn't let you rev over a certain point until it had 1000k on the clock. I only ask because when the Panda was new there was the letter "H" displayed on the dash next to the milometer. I looked in the hand book an couldn't find a reference to it and thought I'd ask the dealer some time. after about 200 mile the "H" disappeared and the car felt like it wanted to rev out a lot more freely. It felt just like the bike.??
pretty sure it's unrelated,
the H, is for handover,
a questionable practice whereby the dealer can ZERO the vehicles shown mileage for delivery on to the customer as " low mileage"

only applicable up to 200 'ish miles apparantly.
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