Super Uwe said:

Perhaps not a fantastic solution, but if any of you people suffering from issues use regular unleaded, it might be worth trying a few tanks of Shell V-Power or equivalent premium fuel?

I am convinced that it provides a little bit more poke when pulling away, I thought as much when we used to have our 1.2 500.

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I agree. On 95 octane, my 1.2 is less efficient and returns about 48mpg. On higher octane fuel such as v-power it returns 50+mpg.


I do also find that it can kangaroo first thing if I cold start it and try to drive away immediately. After it warms up a little, it doesn't kangaroo at all.

306maxi said:

If it's just the mapping that's changed, a remap would make it excactly the same or more likely better than the older 69bhp engines.

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I have been told that it cannot be re-mapped either by Fiat or third parties, due to algorithms in the Fiat software that reset the mapping back to the original after each cycle.

Welcome to the real world. These are some of the lame duck excuses being given for the lack of throttle response and low down engine torque:

• The car is heavier. (This should not affect the engine so markedly)

• Emission regulations. (Our new car uses more petrol than the 09 car and the rolling road shows a lower air to fuel ratio, it definitely does not look greener!).

• The car is not run in. (I agree that it helps when things free up, but the engine mapping is not affected.)

I would appreciate some informed comments from those with the appropriate technical expertise and not like Fiat's attitude that seems to be 'Well, if the car has a flat tyre, just move forword and move the flat bit to the top'.

Mrs Wood said:

I have a new Panda 1.2, 69 bhp "Lounge" that has now covered 800 miles. The car is reluctant to initially accelerate in first or second gear and it feels as if the engine has a "flat spot". The garage tell me that if I have had an earlier Panda, which I have, then I will notice a difference in acceleration due to changes in performance brought about by EU legislation!! Could that be the case or could the ECU be at fault? If the ECU is not at fault, can it be re-mapped or chipped to improve performance?

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I have two Panda's that had the same problem, both went into the garage and they had them for two days. In the end a Fiat Tech came down and remapped the ECU, problem solved, they do know there is a problem with them and it is a simple fix. Crawley Down garage in West Sussex are my Fiat dealer

Mrs Wood said:

I have a new Panda 1.2, 69 bhp "Lounge" that has now covered 800 miles. The car is reluctant to initially accelerate in first or second gear and it feels as if the engine has a "flat spot". The garage tell me that if I have had an earlier Panda, which I have, then I will notice a difference in acceleration due to changes in performance brought about by EU legislation!! Could that be the case or could the ECU be at fault? If the ECU is not at fault, can it be re-mapped or chipped to improve performance?

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I have two Panda's that had the same problem, both went into the garage and they had them for two days. In the end a Fiat Tech came down and remapped the ECU, problem solved, they do know there is a problem with them and it is a simple fix. Crawley Down garage in West Sussex are my Fiat dealer.

Goudrons said:

The Mrs's Lounge 1.2 does this, it was built in Jan this year and done 800 miles as well.
The same engine in the mother in laws 2010 plate (older model) doesn't and never done it and it's the same engine.

I think the ECU software has been "reviewed" (buggered about with) at some point to try and reduce fuel/emissions when setting off, as this is when it's likely to use more fuel and stink up the air.

It has improved slightly the the last few weeks, it isn't as noticable, but that maybe due to the fact we're getting used to it.

Remapping (re writing the ECU software) may sort it, but I'd ring a few service departments first, one may have solved this on their own as it seems quite a common issue.

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I have two Panda's that had the same problem,a first gear flat spot, both went into the garage and they had them for two days. In the end a Fiat Tech came down and remapped the ECU, problem solved, they do know there is a problem with them and it is a simple fix. Crawley Down garage in West Sussex are my Fiat dealer.

306maxi said:

I suspect your mother in law has the old 60bhp unit and not the newer 69bhp one in the Panda and 500

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I have two Panda's that had the same problem, 2012 1.2 old model, first gear flat spot, both went into the garage and they had them for two days. In the end a Fiat Tech came down and remapped the ECU, problem solved, they do know there is a problem with them and it is a simple fix. Crawley Down garage in West Sussex are my Fiat dealer

We've had ours for 8 weeks now, and it was definitely noticeable at the start.
However as we've got some miles (1400) on it the engine has loosened up a lot and now its quite smooth. also the performance seems to be getting better, I can hustle it around town nearly as quick as my 500.
I remember the 500 being tight when it was new and it took the best part of 5000 miles to feel totally free running.
On another note - do the ECU's have some kind of running in protocols programmed in?
My BMW bike wouldn't let you rev over a certain point until it had 1000k on the clock. I only ask because when the Panda was new there was the letter "H" displayed on the dash next to the milometer. I looked in the hand book an couldn't find a reference to it and thought I'd ask the dealer some time. after about 200 mile the "H" disappeared and the car felt like it wanted to rev out a lot more freely. It felt just like the bike.??

Doesn't anybody look at the test readout I posted? If there was anything in the ECU to stop the engine from reving or using full power it would not have allowed us to get to the 6500 revs and produce more brake horsepower than they claim in the book. Yesterday we had a visitor with a 500, she has done 35000 miles in the car and still has the problem.

A challenge: To all you boys with smooth well run in cars, that do not seem to have a problem. I'll pit my 09 Panda against yours anyday!

muttleysdad said:

My BMW bike wouldn't let you rev over a certain point until it had 1000k on the clock. I only ask because when the Panda was new there was the letter "H" displayed on the dash next to the milometer. I looked in the hand book an couldn't find a reference to it and thought I'd ask the dealer some time. after about 200 mile the "H" disappeared and the car felt like it wanted to rev out a lot more freely. It felt just like the bike.??

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pretty sure it's unrelated,
the H, is for handover,
a questionable practice whereby the dealer can ZERO the vehicles shown mileage for delivery on to the customer as " low mileage"

only applicable up to 200 'ish miles apparantly.

YES- iv'e looked,
the VVT motor is typical of that type where both max figures are at least 1000 RPM higher than the conventional 8 Valve,
far less useful in my book - why I've only ever bought 8 V cars.

the fuelling is interesting;
personally I would get on the phone to the named "South Coast Garage", and see if they will enlighten you to the "updates"..,

Charlie

That's interesting. The H disappeared at 200 miles which must be when the option to use this feature switched off.

I don't know if there's still interest in the remapping subject, but I can tell you I have a 1.2 easy and just had it done by a reputable company. One of the main reasons for finally going for it was the awful rev hang issue when upshifting, on mine it was especially bad
The higher the revs, the worse it got. It also had a flat spot which could cause stalling and just a generally vague throttle response.
The poor guy doing it had a bit of a nightmare, it wouldn't take the new map. Finally turned out it had a faulty phonic sensor which screwed up everything, took him hours to track it down.

Anyway got it done, cost £300 but so what, it's made a huge difference. No more rev hang! Hooray!
It's also sharper to drive, the throttle more responsive,no signs of any problems. Not the same car at all.
One thing to know up front is all sensors must be working, that includes the clutch switch. I should add not all remap companies will deal with the Panda,I had one say it was impossible to do!
So, there you have it, Fiat won't help, just have to sort it ourselves.

Geoff 59 said:

I don't know if there's still interest in the remapping subject, but I can tell you I have a 1.2 easy and just had it done by a reputable company. One of the main reasons for finally going for it was the awful rev hang issue when upshifting, on mine it was especially bad
The higher the revs, the worse it got. It also had a flat spot which could cause stalling and just a generally vague throttle response.
The poor guy doing it had a bit of a nightmare, it wouldn't take the new map. Finally turned out it had a faulty phonic sensor which screwed up everything, took him hours to track it down.

Anyway got it done, cost £300 but so what, it's made a huge difference. No more rev hang! Hooray!
It's also sharper to drive, the throttle more responsive,no signs of any problems. Not the same car at all.
One thing to know up front is all sensors must be working, that includes the clutch switch. I should add not all remap companies will deal with the Panda,I had one say it was impossible to do!
So, there you have it, Fiat won't help, just have to sort it ourselves.

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I know from my past Panda 169 with the 69 hp 1.2ltr engine in it, that the remap made a world of difference to the engine.
Went from 65hp on the dyno to 75 hp, and from 107 Nm to 122.8 Nm.

Geoff 59 said:

I don't know if there's still interest in the remapping subject, but I can tell you I have a 1.2 easy and just had it done by a reputable company. One of the main reasons for finally going for it was the awful rev hang issue when upshifting, on mine it was especially bad
The higher the revs, the worse it got. It also had a flat spot which could cause stalling and just a generally vague throttle response.
The poor guy doing it had a bit of a nightmare, it wouldn't take the new map. Finally turned out it had a faulty phonic sensor which screwed up everything, took him hours to track it down.

Anyway got it done, cost £300 but so what, it's made a huge difference. No more rev hang! Hooray!
It's also sharper to drive, the throttle more responsive,no signs of any problems. Not the same car at all.
One thing to know up front is all sensors must be working, that includes the clutch switch. I should add not all remap companies will deal with the Panda,I had one say it was impossible to do!
So, there you have it, Fiat won't help, just have to sort it ourselves.

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What company did you use?

A Devon based company, Radical Remaps, Exeter. They have a Cornwall branch too.

What difference does re-mapping make to the insurance? As the car has a greater power output, and is no longer “standard” as factory built, surely the insurance premiums are going to go up quite a bit?

MuddyPaws said:

What difference does re-mapping make to the insurance? As the car has a greater power output, and is no longer “standard” as factory built, surely the insurance premiums are going to go up quite a bit?

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A couple of people I know have contacted their insurance before getting a remap done and have had mixed results. One was asked for the details of the tuning company who was known to the insurance company and it made no change, the other refused to insure the car if the job was done so he got it done without informing them. That in my mind is stupid as if he has a crash the first thing they'll do is get the ECU map read!!!

Hi.
Surely if the phonic wheel sensor was faulty then the car would have had running issues anyway? Did the EML light come on at any point and was there any codes stored?

murphyv310 said:

Hi.
Surely if the phonic wheel sensor was faulty then the car would have had running issues anyway? Did the EML light come on at any point and was there any codes stored?

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The 'Phonic Wheel Sensor' is the pickup mounted next to the crank pulley and 'reads' the passing of the timing blocks on the outside of the pulley wheel. This is the most fundamental part of the entire ECU timing system and I'm surprised it's not a black&white function thing - it either works and the car runs, or it doesn't and it doesn't.

Having said that, if there was a problem with the parameters for the Max-Min rev range (the magic Phonic Wheel Re-Learn), then it would probably have had an impact on the process.

FWIW, I totally agree that a proper, professional live-data remap on the car itself is pretty much guaranteed to improve the running and how it drives, as it will optimise the setup for that particular car, the fuel you use and the climate, rather than having to cater for every possible operating environment and usage as the stock ECU maps do. Most insurance companies (at least those that have some engineering reference and who properly understand the process) give little weighting to a remap when applied to a normally aspirated engine, at least in my experience.

Top job and well done all round as far as I am concerned