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Old 13-02-2014   #16
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Re: Catching fourth gear

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Old 13-02-2014   #17
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
Thanks for that, the engine is the best bit and now I know why, trusty old 1.2!
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Old 14-02-2014   #18
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by Palio View Post
Sounds more like the clutch not disengaging properly - does is still do it if you double declutch? You may just need an adjustment on the clutch. Not very technical but I'm coming from a 127/Classic Panda viewpoint, where I'd be moving a nut up a bolt to cure it! Worth checking before everyone decides the gearbox needs rebuilding
If it were the clutch then it would be doing this in all the gears; the OP is specific that it's only 5th>4th, so most likely a synchro fault as others have suggested. It just might cure itself with a bit of running in, but if it's no better after a thousand miles or so I'd be wanting the 'box replaced under warranty.

And for the OP - whatever the dealer may try and tell you, they most definitely don't 'all do this'. Actually the 5 speed unit is generally reliable and very smooth - one of the better bits of the car IMO.
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Old 14-02-2014   #19
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
If it were the clutch then it would be doing this in all the gears; the OP is specific that it's only 5th>4th, so most likely a synchro fault as others have suggested. It just might cure itself with a bit of running in, but if it's no better after a thousand miles or so I'd be wanting the 'box replaced under warranty.

And for the OP - whatever the dealer may try and tell you, they most definitely don't 'all do this'. Actually the 5 speed unit is generally reliable and very smooth - one of the better bits of the car IMO.
That's not correct on the older cars - which I made clear was the viewpoint I was coming from. It was only a free and simple check suggestion, which an earlier post said wouldn't apply with a modern clutch system.

If you don't believe me, come and try one of my 127's. You'll crunch it every time going into reverse and often into 2nd. A simple adjustment of the cable cures it (though it's nearly at the end of the travel - still at 35 years old the original clutch is due a replacement!).
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Old 14-02-2014   #20
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by Palio View Post
You'll crunch it every time going into reverse
There's no synchro on reverse and some earlier cars don't have it on 1st either. As you correctly say, on these cars, clunky engagement of 1st/reverse is a sure sign of needing clutch adjustment. Reverse should only ever be selected when the car is stationary and the engine is idling.

Actually the clutch should be checked in every case of clunky gear selection, because any clutch drag will cause excessive wear on the synchro rings.

But in the case of the OP's car, it sounds to me more like a gearbox fault.
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Old 14-02-2014   #21
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by Alsatian1 View Post
OK, the car is with the dealer as I write this. Miraculously, the car did it to the guy who test drove it, how often does that ever happen?! They're gonna keep it for 'a few days' and see what's happening and also get advice from fiat.

In the meantime, I have a bright yellow 500 as a courtesy car. It'll be sods law that we get loads of snow now I have to say, colour aside, I'm not fond of the 500. Steering and ride are not a patch on my panda, I'm not a fan of the overly stylised cabin, visibility is significantly worse than my car and it's a good job I ain't going anywhere as there is no space inside for anything. I'd like to say what engine it is but I don't know. Could be the 1.2 as sounds familiar but it felt pretty gutsy so maybe a 1.4. I miss my 2 cylinder! And why did it have to be yellow!

So far, very very good service from the dealer, let's hope they keep it up.
Alsation1,

Many thanks for the update on what's going on with your car. Having EXACTLY the same problem as you - albeit my car being the 6 speed 4x4 Twinair - I am VERY interested to know what the problem is with your car and especially what the fix is as I'm likely to be going down the same route as your good self sooner rather than later.

Boy oh boy are these forums a great place to share info!

I can totally avoid the slight graunch going from 5th to 4th if I go slowly and deliberately through/across the gate during the change or blip the throttle a bit as I'm clutching/changing. But I can readily make the issue occur if I push the clutch in in 5th, let the revs go down to tick over (like one arguably might reasonably do coasting towards some traffic lights or such) and then go for a fairly swift change down into 4th.

Please do keep me (and the rest of the crew here) as to how things proceed from here with your car as regards diagnosis and repair.

Best regards,

Mike
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Old 14-02-2014   #22
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
There's no synchro on reverse and some earlier cars don't have it on 1st either. As you correctly say, on these cars, clunky engagement of 1st/reverse is a sure sign of needing clutch adjustment. Reverse should only ever be selected when the car is stationary and the engine is idling.

Actually the clutch should be checked in every case of clunky gear selection, because any clutch drag will cause excessive wear on the synchro rings.

But in the case of the OP's car, it sounds to me more like a gearbox fault.
There has yet to be any suggestion from the dealer that it is normal for the car. They seemed genuinely concerned that it was happening, the fact they wanted the car off me there and then did surprise me.

I remember years ago needing a courtesy car while my Grande Punto had some recall work done and they were really difficult about it. Looks like they have improved somewhat as my courtesy 500 was driven round to me at the front within two minutes of handing the panda's keys over.





Quote Originally Posted by mwcf View Post
Alsation1,

Many thanks for the update on what's going on with your car. Having EXACTLY the same problem as you - albeit my car being the 6 speed 4x4 Twinair - I am VERY interested to know what the problem is with your car and especially what the fix is as I'm likely to be going down the same route as your good self sooner rather than later.

Boy oh boy are these forums a great place to share info!

I can totally avoid the slight graunch going from 5th to 4th if I go slowly and deliberately through/across the gate during the change or blip the throttle a bit as I'm clutching/changing. But I can readily make the issue occur if I push the clutch in in 5th, let the revs go down to tick over (like one arguably might reasonably do coasting towards some traffic lights or such) and then go for a fairly swift change down into 4th.

Please do keep me (and the rest of the crew here) as to how things proceed from here with your car as regards diagnosis and repair.

Best regards,

Mike
Either the five and six speeds are related, or this is coincedence. I don't know if the boxes are the same with just another gear added or if they are completley different. Would be interesting to find out. As far as I know, the box in the trekking is what is used for the rest of the panda range, and presumably many other small fiats. Therefore I think it unlikely it will be a fault that affects lots of cars, but I will definatley post the outcome. Dreading going to work on Saturday in the yellow 500 Unfortunately this will strengthen the bigots at works opinions on the 'fix it again tomorrow' mantra. They will completely have forgotten the problems with a colleagues new fiesta, another persons focus and someone elses clio.
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Old 14-02-2014   #23
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Re: Catching fourth gear

[QUOTE=Alsatian1; Either the five and six speeds are related, or this is coincedence. I don't know if the boxes are the same with just another gear added or if they are completley different. [/QUOTE]

My guess is that Fiat absolutely would NOT go to the expense of developing another gearbox just for the 4x4 Twinair. They'll have almost certainly simply added a 6th gear to the 5 speed box and then reduced the final drive ratio to lower the whole box down for the 4x4.

Very much looking forward to seeing what transpires with your car!!

Cheers,

Mike
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Old 14-02-2014   #24
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Well I have an update already. The dealer rang me just a moment ago, fifth gear synchro has broken down and needs a new gearbox as a result. Probably will be about a week or so. Bugger. My bare faced optimistic outlook remains though and still happy with the dealer service so far. So for anyone else that does get this issue, I would advise contacting your dealer as soon as possible to get it sorted. Now I'm trying to think of ways to get the 500 dirty as possible to hide the colour ready for work tomorrow...
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Old 14-02-2014   #25
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by Alsatian1 View Post
Well I have an update already. The dealer rang me just a moment ago, fifth gear synchro has broken down and needs a new gearbox as a result. Probably will be about a week or so. Bugger.
Alsation1,

Dropped my 4x4 TA off at my 'local' dealer (30 miles NE of me S.G. Petch at Middlesbrough) late this afternoon too. Dealer Fiat tech bod drove it and experienced the problem for himself. I now have a loan Panda 1.2 for however long required. What dealer is your car with please Alsation1? I'll let my dealer know so that they can compare notes so to speak. My guy thought it might be the clutch over the phone (as in adjustment - it's cable operated apparently), but having driven the car he thinks not as the issue if firmly only when changing down from 5th to 4th, so firmly IMO sounds like could be same problem as your car.

So thanks for all of your updates and please do tell me the name and contact tel no of your dealer as aforementioned.

Funny really…. I just parted with a 3dr RAV4 XTR auto I've had for 5 years and 70K miles that has never had any issues at all (NONE of the 3dr RAVs I've had this last 20 years as daily drivers have EVER had any issues) and now this on a week old car…. I do hope I'm not going to regret changing any more than I already (temporally I hope!) am at the moment. That said, I do really like the little Panda 4x4 TA and I suppose in the final analysis sh!t just happens sometimes and one has to deal with it (-: An Audi Q2 could turn my head when it appears in another couple of years if this little Fiat gives me any more grief!

Cheers and have a great weekend all,

Mike
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Old 14-02-2014   #26
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Alsation1,

Is it Sutton Park Fiat in Coventry??
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Old 14-02-2014   #27
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by Alsatian1 View Post
fifth gear synchro has broken down and needs a new gearbox as a result. Probably will be about a week or so.
At least Fiat are replacing the gearbox.

My boss had a problem with the gearbox on his Skoda (company lease car) and they had his car for weeks whilst they rebuilt faulty gearbox. He was due to drive to visit family in Bavaria, and he had major hassle getting them to sort the courtesy car insurance for travel abroad.
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Old 15-02-2014   #28
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by mwcf View Post
Alsation1,

Is it Sutton Park Fiat in Coventry??
I have PM'd you the dealership details. Don't want to get done for slander if I ever moan about them so not put on the forum. But like I have previously said they have so far been outstanding over this gearbox issue.
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Old 15-02-2014   #29
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by chr1s View Post
At least Fiat are replacing the gearbox.

My boss had a problem with the gearbox on his Skoda (company lease car) and they had his car for weeks whilst they rebuilt faulty gearbox. He was due to drive to visit family in Bavaria, and he had major hassle getting them to sort the courtesy car insurance for travel abroad.
Sounds like a right ball ache, luckily I dont want to go very far in my courtesy car! I'm gonna sneak into work today and hope nobody notices
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Old 15-02-2014   #30
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Re: Catching fourth gear

Quote Originally Posted by Alsatian1 View Post
Sounds like a right ball ache, luckily I dont want to go very far in my courtesy car! I'm gonna sneak into work today and hope nobody notices
Hey don't worry mate. I drove a 500C TA around for summer last year. Loved it! I'm a wide-shouldered 6' 4" 52yr-old bloke with a bald head! My take on it is that I don't need to prove my masculinity anymore by what car I drive. Or is it that as I get older I just don't care what people think! Probably more the latter than the former maybe... (-:

Thanks for emailing the dealer contact details. Will keep you posted of developments.

Mike
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