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Technical Catching fourth gear

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Technical Catching fourth gear

Alsatian1 said:
OK, the car is with the dealer as I write this. Miraculously, the car did it to the guy who test drove it, how often does that ever happen?! They're gonna keep it for 'a few days' and see what's happening and also get advice from fiat.

In the meantime, I have a bright yellow 500 as a courtesy car. It'll be sods law that we get loads of snow now :( I have to say, colour aside, I'm not fond of the 500. Steering and ride are not a patch on my panda, I'm not a fan of the overly stylised cabin, visibility is significantly worse than my car and it's a good job I ain't going anywhere as there is no space inside for anything. I'd like to say what engine it is but I don't know. Could be the 1.2 as sounds familiar but it felt pretty gutsy so maybe a 1.4. I miss my 2 cylinder! And why did it have to be yellow!

So far, very very good service from the dealer, let's hope they keep it up.
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Alsation1,

Many thanks for the update on what's going on with your car. Having EXACTLY the same problem as you - albeit my car being the 6 speed 4x4 Twinair - I am VERY interested to know what the problem is with your car and especially what the fix is as I'm likely to be going down the same route as your good self sooner rather than later.

Boy oh boy are these forums a great place to share info!

I can totally avoid the slight graunch going from 5th to 4th if I go slowly and deliberately through/across the gate during the change or blip the throttle a bit as I'm clutching/changing. But I can readily make the issue occur if I push the clutch in in 5th, let the revs go down to tick over (like one arguably might reasonably do coasting towards some traffic lights or such) and then go for a fairly swift change down into 4th.

Please do keep me (and the rest of the crew here) as to how things proceed from here with your car as regards diagnosis and repair.

Best regards,

Mike
 
jrkitching said:
There's no synchro on reverse and some earlier cars don't have it on 1st either. As you correctly say, on these cars, clunky engagement of 1st/reverse is a sure sign of needing clutch adjustment. Reverse should only ever be selected when the car is stationary and the engine is idling.

Actually the clutch should be checked in every case of clunky gear selection, because any clutch drag will cause excessive wear on the synchro rings.

But in the case of the OP's car, it sounds to me more like a gearbox fault.
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There has yet to be any suggestion from the dealer that it is normal for the car. They seemed genuinely concerned that it was happening, the fact they wanted the car off me there and then did surprise me.

I remember years ago needing a courtesy car while my Grande Punto had some recall work done and they were really difficult about it. Looks like they have improved somewhat as my courtesy 500 was driven round to me at the front within two minutes of handing the panda's keys over.





mwcf said:
Alsation1,

Many thanks for the update on what's going on with your car. Having EXACTLY the same problem as you - albeit my car being the 6 speed 4x4 Twinair - I am VERY interested to know what the problem is with your car and especially what the fix is as I'm likely to be going down the same route as your good self sooner rather than later.

Boy oh boy are these forums a great place to share info!

I can totally avoid the slight graunch going from 5th to 4th if I go slowly and deliberately through/across the gate during the change or blip the throttle a bit as I'm clutching/changing. But I can readily make the issue occur if I push the clutch in in 5th, let the revs go down to tick over (like one arguably might reasonably do coasting towards some traffic lights or such) and then go for a fairly swift change down into 4th.

Please do keep me (and the rest of the crew here) as to how things proceed from here with your car as regards diagnosis and repair.

Best regards,

Mike
Click to expand...

Either the five and six speeds are related, or this is coincedence. I don't know if the boxes are the same with just another gear added or if they are completley different. Would be interesting to find out. As far as I know, the box in the trekking is what is used for the rest of the panda range, and presumably many other small fiats. Therefore I think it unlikely it will be a fault that affects lots of cars, but I will definatley post the outcome. Dreading going to work on Saturday in the yellow 500 :( Unfortunately this will strengthen the bigots at works opinions on the 'fix it again tomorrow' mantra. They will completely have forgotten the problems with a colleagues new fiesta, another persons focus and someone elses clio.
 
Alsatian1; Either the five and six speeds are related said:
My guess is that Fiat absolutely would NOT go to the expense of developing another gearbox just for the 4x4 Twinair. They'll have almost certainly simply added a 6th gear to the 5 speed box and then reduced the final drive ratio to lower the whole box down for the 4x4.

Very much looking forward to seeing what transpires with your car!!

Cheers,

Mike
Click to expand...
 
Well I have an update already. The dealer rang me just a moment ago, fifth gear synchro has broken down and needs a new gearbox as a result. Probably will be about a week or so. Bugger. My bare faced optimistic outlook remains though and still happy with the dealer service so far. So for anyone else that does get this issue, I would advise contacting your dealer as soon as possible to get it sorted. Now I'm trying to think of ways to get the 500 dirty as possible to hide the colour ready for work tomorrow...
 
Alsatian1 said:
Well I have an update already. The dealer rang me just a moment ago, fifth gear synchro has broken down and needs a new gearbox as a result. Probably will be about a week or so. Bugger.
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Alsation1,

Dropped my 4x4 TA off at my 'local' dealer (30 miles NE of me S.G. Petch at Middlesbrough) late this afternoon too. Dealer Fiat tech bod drove it and experienced the problem for himself. I now have a loan Panda 1.2 for however long required. What dealer is your car with please Alsation1? I'll let my dealer know so that they can compare notes so to speak. My guy thought it might be the clutch over the phone (as in adjustment - it's cable operated apparently), but having driven the car he thinks not as the issue if firmly only when changing down from 5th to 4th, so firmly IMO sounds like could be same problem as your car.

So thanks for all of your updates and please do tell me the name and contact tel no of your dealer as aforementioned.

Funny really…. I just parted with a 3dr RAV4 XTR auto I've had for 5 years and 70K miles that has never had any issues at all (NONE of the 3dr RAVs I've had this last 20 years as daily drivers have EVER had any issues) and now this on a week old car…. I do hope I'm not going to regret changing any more than I already (temporally I hope!) am at the moment. That said, I do really like the little Panda 4x4 TA and I suppose in the final analysis sh!t just happens sometimes and one has to deal with it (-: An Audi Q2 could turn my head when it appears in another couple of years if this little Fiat gives me any more grief!

Cheers and have a great weekend all,

Mike
 
Alsatian1 said:
fifth gear synchro has broken down and needs a new gearbox as a result. Probably will be about a week or so.
Click to expand...

At least Fiat are replacing the gearbox.

My boss had a problem with the gearbox on his Skoda (company lease car) and they had his car for weeks whilst they rebuilt faulty gearbox. He was due to drive to visit family in Bavaria, and he had major hassle getting them to sort the courtesy car insurance for travel abroad.
 
chr1s said:
At least Fiat are replacing the gearbox.

My boss had a problem with the gearbox on his Skoda (company lease car) and they had his car for weeks whilst they rebuilt faulty gearbox. He was due to drive to visit family in Bavaria, and he had major hassle getting them to sort the courtesy car insurance for travel abroad.
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Sounds like a right ball ache, luckily I dont want to go very far in my courtesy car! I'm gonna sneak into work today and hope nobody notices ;)
 
Alsatian1 said:
Sounds like a right ball ache, luckily I dont want to go very far in my courtesy car! I'm gonna sneak into work today and hope nobody notices ;)
Click to expand...

Hey don't worry mate. I drove a 500C TA around for summer last year. Loved it! I'm a wide-shouldered 6' 4" 52yr-old bloke with a bald head! My take on it is that I don't need to prove my masculinity anymore by what car I drive. Or is it that as I get older I just don't care what people think! Probably more the latter than the former maybe... (-:

Thanks for emailing the dealer contact details. Will keep you posted of developments.

Mike
 
A1,

Just spoke to your dealer and yes they are extremely helpful (as are mine also thankfully). Passed their tech guy's contact details onto my dealers tech guy just now so that they can compare notes. Will keep you posted.

Best,

Mike
 
mwcf said:
A1,

Just spoke to your dealer and yes they are extremely helpful (as are mine also thankfully). Passed their tech guy's contact details onto my dealers tech guy just now so that they can compare notes. Will keep you posted.

Best,

Mike
Click to expand...

Will be interesting to see whether the problems are the same. Out of interest, when was your car built? Mine would have been built in December. Perhaps the factory workers had their minds on xmas too much :D
 
Alsatian1 said:
Will be interesting to see whether the problems are the same. Out of interest, when was your car built? Mine would have been built in December. Perhaps the factory workers had their minds on xmas too much :D
Click to expand...

I'm certain that from the descriptions we've both given of our issues that the problem is the same.

My car built in December also.

I must say that whilst thinking about this again this morning, it is a bit of an embarrassment to Fiat that their cars still have mechanical problems like this. A synchromesh gearbox is hardly rocket science by todays standards is it. Only a few weeks ago a dealer principal and I were discussing how problems are never mechanical these days but almost always related to electronics/electrics. Almost!
 
mwcf said:
I'm certain that from the descriptions we've both given of our issues that the problem is the same.

My car built in December also.

I must say that whilst thinking about this again this morning, it is a bit of an embarrassment to Fiat that their cars still have mechanical problems like this. A synchromesh gearbox is hardly rocket science by todays standards is it. Only a few weeks ago a dealer principal and I were discussing how problems are never mechanical these days but almost always related to electronics/electrics. Almost!
Click to expand...

Inconvenient as it is, in fairness to fiat, my grande punto 1.2 and the panda mjet that followed it were pretty solid reliability wise.

The worst thing the punto had was a suspension spring breaking, however whilst dropping a piece on to the road, it drove the same and wasnt dangerous. I think suspension issues affect most manufacturers these days.

The diesel panda and I got off to a rocky start with some scary injector seal problems. This was down to not really being looked after prior to me getting it. I say scary as the garage thought I was going to need a new engine at one point if they couldn't get the seals off. Once sorted, that car was brilliant. Very relaxed engine for longer journeys and great economy.

I'm not too concerned about this gearbox issue, I've never been left by the roadside in a fiat, and the trekking was still working pretty much fine with the occasional fourth gear crunch. I have every faith that it will be as reliable as my other fiats once it's sorted.

Saying all this though, my courtesy 500 keeps activating the ABS under normal braking. Not too alarming currently but may have to take it back at some point!
 
mwcf said:
I'm certain that from the descriptions we've both given of our issues that the problem is the same.

My car built in December also.

I must say that whilst thinking about this again this morning, it is a bit of an embarrassment to Fiat that their cars still have mechanical problems like this. A synchromesh gearbox is hardly rocket science by todays standards is it. Only a few weeks ago a dealer principal and I were discussing how problems are never mechanical these days but almost always related to electronics/electrics. Almost!
Click to expand...

My punto TA,
2012 build - crunches every now + again..,
thought it was just me..,
I'll have to take note.., :eek:
Charlie
 
mwcf said:
:shrug: Still waiting. You heard anything more today??
Click to expand...

Still nothing... I really dont want to have to ring them. Getting fed up with the 500 now, drinks petrol like nobodies business, brake pedal and steering still feel weird to me, and road roar is much louder than the panda. There are a few things I like, but they're wearing thin: gearchange is better than the panda at least. Has the snappy positive action of my old mk3 that the mk4 seems to lack slightly. Also has the early cancelling indicators of the mk3, funny how quickly I have reverted back to my old habits of holding the stalk when using roundabouts.

I will have to use it for the dog on Friday, been getting my brother to ferry her where she needs to go but stuck on friday. Hope they wont charge me a valet bill. I will get the waterproof hammock out for the back seats and hope she doesn't shed too much hair during the journey :banghead:
 
varesecrazy said:
My punto TA,
2012 build - crunches every now + again..,
thought it was just me..,
I'll have to take note.., :eek:
Charlie
Click to expand...

I'd get it looked at while in warranty if I were you. Preferably while its under fiat and not the third year dealer warranty. I'm still sure this isn't a wide ranging fault though, until I posted I hadnt seen anything related to the gearbox before on the panda. Hopefully in your case it's nothing to worry about.
 
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