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General Panda multijet vs twinair

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General Panda multijet vs twinair

jrkitching said:
At least the MJet Panda is spared that expense. Added to DPF woes, DMF's put the economics of some larger diesel cars into question...
Click to expand...

AFAIK the 85HP Twinair (in the Panda) doesn't have a DMF (the 105HP version in the 500L does...)
And the absence of a DPF is one reason I've gone back to petrol! Note that all current Euro 5/6
diesels have a DPF, though some new ones are claimed to be trouble-free.

I'm happy with my TA Trekking Panda's 55 mpg economy :)



Chris
 
soupdragon said:
I think half of my choice is down to the fact that I don't really do " normal ", whatever that is. I tend to go for the slightly out there options, that's what is drawing me to the TwinAir.
I've almost convinced myself that it'll get the twin. I'll just have to lower my mpg expectancy after 5 years of getting around 55-60 from my multijet.

Cheers Tom
Click to expand...

so how do real-world MPG / servicing figures balance the 1.3 MJ against the 85 HP TwinAir..??

based on say..55MPG Diesel against 45MPG Petrol,
fuel is @ 10% different per litre..,
does the diesel need more oil changes.. more expensive oil..??

all considerations..,
I didn't fancy the small diesel for DPF issues, AND the relatively High NEW Cost for a dated design.. the TA being so much better, AND Zero RFL,
Charlie
 
deeyup said:
The TA doesn't have a dpf. The d = diesel.
I believe the new Euro 6 petrol motors are now being fitted with some kind of exhaust filter? Anyone able to clarify?
Click to expand...

I did realise that the D was for diesel ( hense " filter thingy " ) but I'm sure that I'd read that even petrol engines now had some similar form of filter that required the same sort of attention. But might not be as critical as with a diesel?

Cheers Tom
 
jrkitching said:
You are just assuming.

I'd be extremely surprised if a 2007 Panda Mjet had a DPF. AFAIK they are only required to meet Euro5 (or later) emissions standards and IIRC none of the Mk3 Pandas ever had one. AIUI the Mjet was discontinued from the last of the Mk3's for that very reason. MEP is the expert here on models & variants & may be along in a minute.

DPF's really are a game changer - we're not in Kansas anymore. The long-term economics of the small diesel go out of the window if you factor in £1000+ for DPF replacement at 75000 miles & all those regenerations eat into the fuel savings too. Injectors don't last forever either; one chap was on here awhile back bemoaning a four figure bill for replacement at about the same mileage; they don't always come out easily & there's a recommendation to change the fuel lines on common rail diesels whenever you disturb the injectors...

TBH, if I couldn't live with a 1.2 & wanted something with a bit more performance than a TA or Mjet, I'd be looking at something else entirely.

If I could put in just a little more cash, then it'd probably be a Suzuki Swift Sport; 136 BHP, an uncomplicated NA petrol engine, and with build quality, performance & handling that'll blow a 500 Abarth into the weeds. They're popular track day hire cars at the 'ring for a reason.
Click to expand...

That probably will be the deciding factor then. I've read too many bad things about town driving and those things. I would worry that my infrequent trips up to the lakes wouldn't be enough to keep it clear :(

Cheers Tom
 
varesecrazy said:
so how do real-world MPG / servicing figures balance the 1.3 MJ against the 85 HP TwinAir..??

based on say..55MPG Diesel against 45MPG Petrol,
fuel is @ 10% different per litre..,
does the diesel need more oil changes.. more expensive oil..??

all considerations..,
I didn't fancy the small diesel for DPF issues, AND the relatively High NEW Cost for a dated design.. the TA being so much better, AND Zero RFL,
Charlie
Click to expand...

I seem to be getting used to the fact that if ( when ) I get the TwinAir, I'll be settling for 45mpg ish driving reasonably carefully. Anything more will be a bonus :)

Cheers Tom
 
babbo_umbro said:
My current 4x4 TA is averaging about 37 mpg over nearly 7000 miles, though it averaged over 40 on an extended trip to and from Italy, so around Devon it's doing about 35 mpg; surprisingly nippy, very nearly as quick as the 100HP up to about 95.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping those figures are with an amount of right boot applied?

Cheers Tom
 
soupdragon said:
I'm hoping those figures are with an amount of right boot applied?

Cheers Tom
Click to expand...



terrain.. and the 4x4 running gear being lugged around,
Moultoneer, gets FAR more from his TA trekking,



as in the 500 TA's,
1 regular posts 70's on a run..,
another 30's..,

all down to using the "grin -factor" something the other 2 engine options are sadly lacking.
 
soupdragon said:
I'm hoping those figures are with an amount of right boot applied?

Cheers Tom
Click to expand...

I suspect I'd be getting several more mpgs if I'd come to the 4x4 TA from a 1.2 rather than the 100HP. Without wanting to restart an old thread, I had the aircon on all the time on the Italian trip and while there and probably half the time here in Devon.

I had a good look under the 4x4 when it was up on a lift for a precautionary oil change (don't like the idea of going 18000 miles on the original oil) - there's a lot of machinery underneath, nicely engineered with neat aluminium castings and so on.
 
varesecrazy said:
all down to using the "grin -factor" something the other 2 engine options are sadly lacking.
Click to expand...

That's what I was hoping.

The fact that I get best part of 60 from my multijet might suggest that I can drive in an economical manner when needed ( I think the oficial figure is 65 )? So, fingers crossed that I'd get around the 50 mark from a TA? The only time I do like to enjoy my driving is on those country lanes and I don't get to do those too often :( I don't really do " boy racer " starts from the lights. It's all show off-y and silly as far as I'm concerned but each to their own......
All I've got to do now is sort out a test drive and decide what colour/spec to get. I'm thinking Easy as I do like having remote central locking. Not really bothered about air con but it may come in useful.

Cheers Tom
 
Most of my driving is on country roads or dual carriageway/motorway. I don't hang about but I'm absolutely not a driver who screeches away from traffic lights or tears around town streets alternating between hard accelerating and hard braking - come to think of it, you'd have to be trying bloody hard to get a 4x4 TA to spin its wheels on tarmac.
 
soupdragon said:
So, fingers crossed that I'd get around the 50 mark from a TA?
Click to expand...

You have to be a bit careful in interpreting the figures, but five minutes spent on fuelly would suggest you'll be doing better than most TA owners if you get into the 50's.

There aren't many TA Pandas, but there are quite a few TA 500's (and the two cars have near-identical economy, driven like-for-like). The fleet average of all TA 500's & Pandas is around 45mpg.

I'm not saying you won't get 50+mpg from a TA - it's certainly possible - but you'll have to drive more carefully than the average driver on here to get it.

Actually, I think the best answer to your question is in your own post:

soupdragon said:
I seem to be getting used to the fact that if ( when ) I get the TwinAir, I'll be settling for 45mpg ish driving reasonably carefully. Anything more will be a bonus :)
Click to expand...

Buy one with that attitude, and you should hit your target with sufficient margin for a bit of fun.

When you test drive one, reset the trip before you start and see what you get - but remember the trip computer has been programmed with a touch of the same FIAT optimism as the official figures.
 
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I'll be ringing my local dealer in about 10 mins to sort our a test drive. That's if he's had any TwinAir's in. When I popped in last week he didn't :(

Cheers Tom
 
Test drive is booked for lunchtime tomorrow. Still no Panda's but I've got the pick of a 500 or a 500L. I'm thinking the 500L as it's more the size of the Panda?

Cheers Tom
 
varesecrazy said:
terrain.. and the 4x4 running gear being lugged around,
Moultoneer, gets FAR more from his TA trekking,



as in the 500 TA's,
1 regular posts 70's on a run..,
another 30's..,

all down to using the "grin -factor" something the other 2 engine options are sadly lacking.
Click to expand...


Having driven them in both the Panda and 500, I would say that the 1.2 engines definitely do have 'grin factor'. They are characterful, free revving little engines and respond really well to being driven enthusiatically, but when driven more sedately can give tremendous fuel consumption. If not buying a trekking or 4x4 they should definitely be given a test drive as they offer the lowest running and maintenance costs IMO.
 
soupdragon said:
Test drive is booked for lunchtime tomorrow. Still no Panda's but I've got the pick of a 500 or a 500L. I'm thinking the 500L as it's more the size of the Panda?

Cheers Tom
Click to expand...

You can see what consumption I am getting out of my 4x4 over the last 10000 miles from my signature below. My 500 was around 47mpg. I'd expect a 2wd panda to be nigh on the same in my hands as I had out of my 500.

I'd be inclined to drive the 500 too as the 500l may be a 105hp. I'd say the 500 is more comparable.
Reset the trip computer before you set off, and see what it shows when you finish.
 
deeyup said:
I'd be inclined to drive the 500 too as the 500l may be a 105hp. I'd say the 500 is more comparable.
Reset the trip computer before you set off, and see what it shows when you finish.
Click to expand...

Must remember to ask if it's the 85hp or not before I start out. Is the trip reset on the end of one of the stalks like on mine?

Cheers Tom
 
soupdragon said:
Is the trip reset on the end of one of the stalks like on mine?
Click to expand...

If you're taking out a 500, then yes, it's on the end of the stalk. Just press in for a bit longer than you think you need to and whichever trip is currently displaying will reset.

stu0710 said:
Having driven them in both the Panda and 500, I would say that the 1.2 engines definitely do have 'grin factor'. They are characterful, free revving little engines and respond really well to being driven enthusiatically, but when driven more sedately can give tremendous fuel consumption. If not buying a trekking or 4x4 they should definitely be given a test drive as they offer the lowest running and maintenance costs IMO.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:
IMO the 1.2 Panda is the car which best captures what was good about the classic 500 and provided you pay the right price for it (discounts of 20%+ off list can usually be had) & avoid rip-off main dealer servicing, could well be one of the cheapest cars to own & run that you can buy, period.

Ours has now done over 40k, averages in the mid-50's (and that's with Ladykitching using it for a daily commute), has cost me less than £150 all in to service over 3 1/2 yrs, and has been/still is faultless. It's recently needed a new set of tyres, but is still running on the original pads. We paid £6600 for it in 2010; not bad for a new car with 4 doors, A/C & central locking. Probably costs us around 20p/mile including depreciation.

Drive it like a saint and you'll beat 99% of the diesels on mpg alone.
 
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I too can vouch for the 1.2. I bought mine 7 weeks ago after a short test drive. I have to admit that I was a little disappointed with the performance of the engine, but as it was being bought as a second car and this one was available to buy straight away.
Now, with 1200 miles under its belt, it feels so different to when I test drove it with just 10 miles on the clock. Upon delivery 4th and 5th gear were unusable for ANY acceleration , now whilst not exactly neck snapping, progress can be made without so much gear changing but when you do, it really surprises me and other road users how well it goes, AND its so smooth when when doing it.
Economy wise, the total average for this period is 43MPG ,(according to the relatively accurate gauge that I checked against proper figures for the first couple of tankfuls). This is mostly London driving with a few longer runs as well.
In light of the premium charged for the other two motors, I would certainly give the 1.2 a test drive, just try to find one with some reasonable mileage on it!
 
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