Hello - I'm new here and looking for some advice. I'm planning on getting a Panda 4x4 but can't decide between the TwinAir or Multijet. I drive predominantly on fast country roads (twisty and hilly) and average about 10 000 miles per year. I gather the Multijet is quite a bit more economical but the TwinAir is more fun and not as noisy - is this right? I need to make a quick decision as the snow may be here soon! (I live in the Far North!)
General Which Panda 4x4?
- Thread starter Kalli
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General Which Panda 4x4?
babbo_umbro
Established member
My 4x4 TA from Devon to Umbria thread may give you some ideas. The TA is really capable on main roads, autoroutes and autostrade, and is versatile enough to look promising on the rougher going but it's bound to be less economical and (as I've just found out) lack of engine braking is a limiting factor off-road. Not been on any slime yet - need to get back to Devon for that!
Well after being a massive twin air I've recently found a new liking for the multijet.
My car (a twin air 4x4) has been in for warranty work over the last 3 days.
I've had multijet Qubo to run around in.
I've found it very smooth, and extremely economical, 67mpg on my way to work. It's not as quick as the TA, but does the job fine.
If I had my choice again , I think I may have gone for it.
If Fiat had fitted the multijet 3 instead of the 2 I definitely would have had it.
Best thing to do is drive both cars back to back and see what you think.
My car (a twin air 4x4) has been in for warranty work over the last 3 days.
I've had multijet Qubo to run around in.
I've found it very smooth, and extremely economical, 67mpg on my way to work. It's not as quick as the TA, but does the job fine.
If I had my choice again , I think I may have gone for it.
If Fiat had fitted the multijet 3 instead of the 2 I definitely would have had it.
Best thing to do is drive both cars back to back and see what you think.
I must admit if the 4x4 mj had not been a grand dearer I would probably have got one as I'm pretty disappointed at the (lack of) economy of the ta which is in every other respect brilliant....
Thanks guys - helpful info. I don't know anyone with a Panda (or who wants one - when I tell people I'm getting one they usually laugh derisively, big clunking 4x4s being the popular choice here!)
I've test-driven the TA and really liked it but have been a bit put off by the big discrepancies between real-life mpg and Fiat's claims. I gather the MJ is closer to the claimed figures. I wasn't initially considering the MJ as I didn't think I did enough miles per year to justify the extra cost, plus I haven't really liked diesel cars in the past. I probably won't be able to test-drive back-to-back as my nearest Fiat dealer is 125 miles away, so a casual trip in isn't really an option! I'm still not sure what to get - very indecisive, I know!
I've test-driven the TA and really liked it but have been a bit put off by the big discrepancies between real-life mpg and Fiat's claims. I gather the MJ is closer to the claimed figures. I wasn't initially considering the MJ as I didn't think I did enough miles per year to justify the extra cost, plus I haven't really liked diesel cars in the past. I probably won't be able to test-drive back-to-back as my nearest Fiat dealer is 125 miles away, so a casual trip in isn't really an option! I'm still not sure what to get - very indecisive, I know!
I did do back to back tests. In both cars, I reset the trip comp, and drove the same route.
Twin air showed 36mpg, multijet 48mpg.
The twin air was a fair bit quicker and more fun. I like the 6 speed box too.
Since buying one, my mpg is averaging 45 overall. I think I would be seeing 60 on the multijet. So for me I'm using around 35% more fuel with the petrol version.
So what I worked out then was the cost of my annual fuel bill in both petrol and diesel, then took into account that road tax was approx £100 more in the diesel.
The savings would have been about £300 a year, but then the car cost £1000 more.
Over 3 years it would have pretty much evened out, but taking into account the extra driving fun of the ta and my perceived reliability issues with the multijet (blocked dpf?) the petrol won it.
Bear in mind that I drive economically. I'm in the slow lane on the motorway with the lorries and if I was to exploit all the ta power, my Mpg would more like 37-40. The multijet doesn't seem to suffer in the same way from liberal use of the throttle. So the gap between petrol and diesel could be even greater.
Pity your so far away, as my local dealer has around four 4x4 in stock at the moment with both motors. There's a gorgeous sicilia orange multijet in the showroom with winter pack. Quite fancy that one myself!
Anyway, best of luck with your decision. Whatever you choose, the Panda 4x4 is an ace car!
Twin air showed 36mpg, multijet 48mpg.
The twin air was a fair bit quicker and more fun. I like the 6 speed box too.
Since buying one, my mpg is averaging 45 overall. I think I would be seeing 60 on the multijet. So for me I'm using around 35% more fuel with the petrol version.
So what I worked out then was the cost of my annual fuel bill in both petrol and diesel, then took into account that road tax was approx £100 more in the diesel.
The savings would have been about £300 a year, but then the car cost £1000 more.
Over 3 years it would have pretty much evened out, but taking into account the extra driving fun of the ta and my perceived reliability issues with the multijet (blocked dpf?) the petrol won it.
Bear in mind that I drive economically. I'm in the slow lane on the motorway with the lorries and if I was to exploit all the ta power, my Mpg would more like 37-40. The multijet doesn't seem to suffer in the same way from liberal use of the throttle. So the gap between petrol and diesel could be even greater.
Pity your so far away, as my local dealer has around four 4x4 in stock at the moment with both motors. There's a gorgeous sicilia orange multijet in the showroom with winter pack. Quite fancy that one myself!
Anyway, best of luck with your decision. Whatever you choose, the Panda 4x4 is an ace car!
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Good summary. I have no regrets getting my ta....I'm not doing big miles, so it was the sensible choice and its far more entertaining than a diesel....
I drove both back-to-back. The TA is fun and more 'frantic', the MJ has a very wide torque band and pulls really well. It feels more solid and 'planted' but at speeds above 55mph it is boomy as it lacks a 6th gear, which it really needs IMHO. Have a look at Fuelly to see what sort of mpg figures people are achieving in the real world. DPF issues could be a problem if being used for shortish urban runs. If bought via an online broker the initial purchase price difference can be narrowed down £500 in favour of the TA.
Either car is a nice drive - buying with your heart you'd probably plump for the TA, with your head, probably the MJ!
Either car is a nice drive - buying with your heart you'd probably plump for the TA, with your head, probably the MJ!
babbo_umbro
Established member
Unless you do a really substantial mileage, the MJ will take years to catch up on overall costs - if at all, remembering the TA's cheap tax and 18,000 mile service interval. I've not seen any comparisons but, if our experience with 2wd Mark 3s is anything to go by, you'll spend a lot more on tyres for the diesel as well.
I suspect it's impractical to fit the six-speed box to the diesel. On the 100HP it increases the turning circle very significantly by preventing so much steering lock and I imagine that would be even more pronounced on the diesel. Not a problem with the TA twin.
After 4,000 miles, including a lot of autoroute/auostrada running, I don't find the TA in the least frantic. The gearing in sixth is the same as my previous 100HP and the twin cylinder sounds less busy. I tried 4x4 MJ and TA before opting for the TA and - as I expected - changed gear at least as often in the diesel. I suspect stu0710's "solid and planted" may be my "unduly nose heavy", though both versions suffer from over assistance on the steering.
I suspect it's impractical to fit the six-speed box to the diesel. On the 100HP it increases the turning circle very significantly by preventing so much steering lock and I imagine that would be even more pronounced on the diesel. Not a problem with the TA twin.
After 4,000 miles, including a lot of autoroute/auostrada running, I don't find the TA in the least frantic. The gearing in sixth is the same as my previous 100HP and the twin cylinder sounds less busy. I tried 4x4 MJ and TA before opting for the TA and - as I expected - changed gear at least as often in the diesel. I suspect stu0710's "solid and planted" may be my "unduly nose heavy", though both versions suffer from over assistance on the steering.
babbo_umbro
Established member
Not so sure. I push the TA pretty hard (after having a 100HP), cruising at at least the legal limit, which includes about a thousand miles so far at 80+ mph on the continent in the first 4000 miles and I'm getting 41 or so mpg. Diesels are not so much more economical when running at higher speeds so I imagine the differential would be less, and, of course, the MJ doesn't benefit from the sixth gear.
I'm only going on my experience of the last few days. Ok I was driving a 2wd Qubo, but even around town it was very reluctant to drop below 50mpg. My twin air would have been mid 30's from experience. The same for my 500 twin air.
The twin air is economical, but as soon as you use all the power, it can gulp the juice at a very quick rate. I don't think the multijet does in the same way.
I think that you're right about the extra nose weight making the car feel more solid and this is likely to result in greater tyre wear. I found that the TA needed more gear changes in an urban traffic environment, but that could have been just my inexperience in driving it and the fact that it does drive so differently to other petrol cars - it's very free revving and this takes some time to get used to. It will definitely be my choice when I buy!
The twin air is a totally different drive to most other petrol cars.
I've said it before, it takes, I think around 4-6 weeks to really get used to how to get the best from it.
one other thing is I think Insurance for the TA might be cheaper because they will be looking at 875 cc compared to 1250 cc engine as my insurance is now £50 cheaper than when I was driving my Panda Mk 3 MJ 1.3 , had it not been for the Road Tax I would have gone for the diesel
philboo
Member
Hi Kalli
You've had some good feedback there. Deeyu,p myself and others here have been great in previous posts (especially when were all waiting for our cars or selecting options and colours) so this is hopefully helping you.
I have the 4x4 TA. Previously I ran a 1.2 petrol previous version 2wd panda (while I waited or the 4x4 to arrive), a gorgeous abarth 500 and prior to that a multi jet 500 (same engine as the mj panda).
My usage has changed over the last few years as I changed from using car/train, to car only, and now back to car/train to get to work.
When I had the diesel 500 I did 8-10k a year. This was mainly driving to the station and back (about 8 miles total) or driving to work and back at a weekend (80 miles in total). I had no DPF issues in that time put I always drive gently and was aware a good run was best every couple of weeks at the very least to ensure no DPF issues. I sold it on to my friends wife who did 80k in it before trading it for a mini diesel. In all the time it had no turbo or DPF issues. However, my GF had the corsa (current model) fiat engined diesel which did long motorway runs and that needed a new turbo at 56k (but no DPF issues in the four years). I mention all this as I am worried myself about the cost to fix a DPF issue on a car if you only do short runs. You hear some real horror stories and it's something which put my off the diesel 4x4 knowing I was going to be doing shorter runs in my car.
You also say you don't really like diesels to drive from past experiences.
I probably fall into deeyups category of driver. I don't go very fast and also tend to not accelerate or brake hard (even when I had the abarth I didn't drive in sport mode other than to overtake). As a result I get from 41-48 mpg on average. Going up hills really seems to knock the mpg down (I go over one each day). On flat local roads I get more like 46mpg on average. Given I have the GF with me most days and also it has the space saver spare (it all adds weight) I don't think that's too bad (my abarth did 41-44 mpg on average all the time).
As others have said. Put your foot down and this figure will be much worse on the TA compared to the diesel which from my experience in 2wd models is more forgiving.
I personally like how diesels drive but didn't think the extra £1000, increase in yearly road tax and possibly higher long term maintenance costs were worth the extra when I went for the 4x4.
Having owned it since late April I still don't find the TA as relaxing to drive as the diesel or 1.2 petrol in the old 2wd panda. Don't read that as I don't like it or it isn't good, it just doesn't plod along quite the same. Some days it feels really smooth and refined but others just a bit noisy and unrefined (which puts me off it).
The best advice I think would be just have a drive of a diesel 500 or panda (forget it being 4x4 or not) and do the same with a TA. See which you enjoy driving.
The TA is a great engine, quick in the 4x4 (especially compared to the old version which I would have never coped with a it was just too slow). The MJ is also a good engine but I feel it's not as good as it needs to be these days in the 500 or panda. The GF went to the latest BMW engined diesel mini one and it's so much better than the fiat diesel engine in torque, refinement, etc. (I don't want to start an engine discussion on minis here).
If it was the later mk3 mj in the panda I'd have been more interested.
So, I hope this hasn't confused you more. Best advice is definitely drive both engines and see which suites you. I think I'd happily live with either (they both have good and bad points) but you need to think about the upfront and longer terms cost too.
Good luck and I do hope you buy one.
Phil
You've had some good feedback there. Deeyu,p myself and others here have been great in previous posts (especially when were all waiting for our cars or selecting options and colours) so this is hopefully helping you.
I have the 4x4 TA. Previously I ran a 1.2 petrol previous version 2wd panda (while I waited or the 4x4 to arrive), a gorgeous abarth 500 and prior to that a multi jet 500 (same engine as the mj panda).
My usage has changed over the last few years as I changed from using car/train, to car only, and now back to car/train to get to work.
When I had the diesel 500 I did 8-10k a year. This was mainly driving to the station and back (about 8 miles total) or driving to work and back at a weekend (80 miles in total). I had no DPF issues in that time put I always drive gently and was aware a good run was best every couple of weeks at the very least to ensure no DPF issues. I sold it on to my friends wife who did 80k in it before trading it for a mini diesel. In all the time it had no turbo or DPF issues. However, my GF had the corsa (current model) fiat engined diesel which did long motorway runs and that needed a new turbo at 56k (but no DPF issues in the four years). I mention all this as I am worried myself about the cost to fix a DPF issue on a car if you only do short runs. You hear some real horror stories and it's something which put my off the diesel 4x4 knowing I was going to be doing shorter runs in my car.
You also say you don't really like diesels to drive from past experiences.
I probably fall into deeyups category of driver. I don't go very fast and also tend to not accelerate or brake hard (even when I had the abarth I didn't drive in sport mode other than to overtake). As a result I get from 41-48 mpg on average. Going up hills really seems to knock the mpg down (I go over one each day). On flat local roads I get more like 46mpg on average. Given I have the GF with me most days and also it has the space saver spare (it all adds weight) I don't think that's too bad (my abarth did 41-44 mpg on average all the time).
As others have said. Put your foot down and this figure will be much worse on the TA compared to the diesel which from my experience in 2wd models is more forgiving.
I personally like how diesels drive but didn't think the extra £1000, increase in yearly road tax and possibly higher long term maintenance costs were worth the extra when I went for the 4x4.
Having owned it since late April I still don't find the TA as relaxing to drive as the diesel or 1.2 petrol in the old 2wd panda. Don't read that as I don't like it or it isn't good, it just doesn't plod along quite the same. Some days it feels really smooth and refined but others just a bit noisy and unrefined (which puts me off it).
The best advice I think would be just have a drive of a diesel 500 or panda (forget it being 4x4 or not) and do the same with a TA. See which you enjoy driving.
The TA is a great engine, quick in the 4x4 (especially compared to the old version which I would have never coped with a it was just too slow). The MJ is also a good engine but I feel it's not as good as it needs to be these days in the 500 or panda. The GF went to the latest BMW engined diesel mini one and it's so much better than the fiat diesel engine in torque, refinement, etc. (I don't want to start an engine discussion on minis here).
If it was the later mk3 mj in the panda I'd have been more interested.
So, I hope this hasn't confused you more. Best advice is definitely drive both engines and see which suites you. I think I'd happily live with either (they both have good and bad points) but you need to think about the upfront and longer terms cost too.
Good luck and I do hope you buy one.
Phil
doggydoctor
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I know you don't want to start an engine discussion, but how can you compare a 1.3 with a 1.6 Diesel engine?
The 1.8 tfsi engine in the Audi a3 is also a lot better than my twin air engine. Again, not a fair comparison.
The 1.8 tfsi engine in the Audi a3 is also a lot better than my twin air engine. Again, not a fair comparison.
Hi everyone
Thanks very much for all the advice - I'm really glad I came across this site!
Anyway, just to let you know that I've gone for the TA! I finally decided on the basis that I think I'll just enjoy driving it more than the MJ. Financially too I think I'd probably have to do more miles than I do to recoup the extra cost of the MJ. Plus I was in a friend's diesel Fiesta yesterday and it made me remember how much I've disliked diesel cars in the past - I don't want to be feeling like that in my new Panda!
Coincidently, I've just passed a Panda 4x4 on the road - the first one I've seen in these parts. I nearly drove into the ditch craning my head to look at it!
Can't wait to pick mine up (in about two weeks).
Thanks very much for all the advice - I'm really glad I came across this site!
Anyway, just to let you know that I've gone for the TA! I finally decided on the basis that I think I'll just enjoy driving it more than the MJ. Financially too I think I'd probably have to do more miles than I do to recoup the extra cost of the MJ. Plus I was in a friend's diesel Fiesta yesterday and it made me remember how much I've disliked diesel cars in the past - I don't want to be feeling like that in my new Panda!
Coincidently, I've just passed a Panda 4x4 on the road - the first one I've seen in these parts. I nearly drove into the ditch craning my head to look at it!
Can't wait to pick mine up (in about two weeks).
Hi everyone
Thanks very much for all the advice - I'm really glad I came across this site!
Anyway, just to let you know that I've gone for the TA! I finally decided on the basis that I think I'll just enjoy driving it more than the MJ. Financially too I think I'd probably have to do more miles than I do to recoup the extra cost of the MJ. Plus I was in a friend's diesel Fiesta yesterday and it made me remember how much I've disliked diesel cars in the past - I don't want to be feeling like that in my new Panda!
Coincidently, I've just passed a Panda 4x4 on the road - the first one I've seen in these parts. I nearly drove into the ditch craning my head to look at it!
Good choice!
babbo_umbro
Established member
Good choice!
Yes - I'm sure you won't regret it. Do remember that you need to acclimatise to the TA's quirkiness and that - if mine is anything to go by - takes at least 3000 miles to free up, which is most noticeable at low-to-medium revs.
Moultoneer
Member
If trying for maximum economy (using the shift indicators in the display)
you'll find it strangely diesel-like, with quite pronounced vibration, notably
around peak torque at 1900 RPM.
I've grown to enjoy this quirk of the Twinair, and am now edging towards
60 MPG (mileage still just over 4000) in my Trekking Panda.
The odd burst of higher revs for overtaking etc. is a great tonic too.
It's an eclectic and charismatic engine which can also be discreet
when driven gently (but where's the fun in that?)
Despite being a diesel nutter since 1993, I'm well satisfied with my
recent switch back to petrol
Chris
