Fiat Panda Twin Air 4x4 Review - Purchased June 2013
Apologies for the lengthy essay on my experiences to date, but here goes, I hope also that Fiat UK and affiliated garages in the UK read this and take note.
Purchase requirements.
The Panda was purchased as a second car to be used along with current Jaguar S Type 4.2 V8 which was approaching 90,000 miles, though it has proved to be the most reliable car I've ever had recently, including several BMW's, a Mini Cooper S and X Type 3.0 4x4, I felt a backup car was needed, because of the nature of the job involved, working away and reliably travelling to Clients in the UK.
Regarding choice of car, initially I specced up a Range Rover Evoque, but what put me off was the cost, specced up was over £42,000, also reports that fuel consumption of the SD4 model was 30 mpg, which was far too high especially for a diesel.
Eventually after much deliberation I decided the car was to be practical, ignoring brand name, styling, I tried to purchase a vehicle mainly on ability and meeting requirements which were important and relevant to my driving needs. In view of the high expenditure on expensive cars in the past, I determined to reduce purchase costs. I was also concerned that my business running costs were spiralling upwards by 5 to 10% annually thus reducing profit margins and that these increases could not be offset by charging customers extra.
Perceived requirements for a suitable car were as follows:-
1. Good economy, efficient engine, capable of both Town and Motorway journeys, engine revs at 70 to 80 mph not to exceed 3500 to 4000 rpm.
2. Low cost, Low Tax, cheap to insure, petrol engine preferred less polluting than diesel and smoother in operation.
3. Four wheel drive, mud and snow tyres for all season use (So that winter tyres were no longer necessary as used on Jaguar), potentially to insure against predicted future harsh winters and to ensure that journeys to Clients were possible in adverse conditions.
4. Reliable proven mechanical components, cheap servicing, long service intervals.
5. To have a good ride comensurate with todays poor quality road surfaces, capable of traversing potholes and sleeping policemen without crashing the suspension, comfortable on long journeys.
6. Have capability of carrying large(ish) loads when seats folded.
7. Equipment to include adjustable front and rear seats and steering, heated seats windscreen and mirrors for winter, bluetooth for mobile phone, fixed Sat Nav on Dash, cruise control to help maintain speeds complying with variable speed cameras, stop start, auto climate control, pollen filter, alarm, rear parking sensor, armrests, auto gearbox.
8. Good vision and visibilty preferably position of seats to be higher than normal.
9. Reasonable handling and good crash protection with side airbags to cover body from all angles.
Out of all the possible vehicles and after reading road tests in Autocar, Car and Top Gear magazines as well as trawling through test reports on the internet I became particularly interested in the 4x4 Panda. After a lengthy road test in December 2012, the vehicle was duly ordered with the above and other additional optional extras, though it was not possible to have cruise control, centre armrest and auto gearbox fitted.
Comments on ownership of car after 2500 miles on 16th September 2013.
Overall pleased with the Panda and it is generally comfortable and well built, the view through the front windscreen is good from the lofty position and the petrol filler cap is a work of genius and so easy to use. Parking is also easy as its a small car. Also I cannot wait to use the 4 wheel drive when Winter and snow comes. Panda is refined for its size and is reasonably quiet on motorway runs. Mud and Snow tyres are however noisy on broken surfaces due to their tread pattern and softer compound.
Not so with slightly bouncy ride, typical italian trait of long arm short legs positioning of steering wheel and pedals incurring discomfort over long distances, lack of centre armrest and upright seating position causes tension in shoulder muscles (this may have been alleviated by having optional reach in/out adjustable steering wheel), forward edge of seat base too high up or firmly upholstered causing discomfort in thighs on long journeys. In addition to this poor fuel consumption particularly on motorways at 70 mph and above is about 37 to 42 mpg, though it must be said that sedate driving on country roads and motorways below 50 mph gives 47+ mpg, I had however expected better. Its relative height and wheel arch clearance means that in windy conditions the car is blown about.
The steering with or without city assistance has little feel to it, as if the wheels are not connected to the road so it is difficult to accurately turn corners, this makes it feel less like a drivers car.
The engine sounds gruff and rattles just like a diesel therefore is rather unrefined and despite being aware that it is a two cylinder engine it is nonetheless difficult to accept, also there are blind spots due to the intrusive A pillars and mirrors which despite the large window areas can cause difficulty in parking.
Lack of cruise control and auto gearbox increases stress on long journeys and when going past variable speed cameras, "Fiat"! these should definitely have been optional extras.
The sliding rear seat has proved a godsend as when slid forward it releases an extra 8" (approx) of luggage space, this means that a large suitcase and smaller ones can be carried, covered up in the boot. However there is a downside, with the rear seat slid forward there is a gap between the parcel shelf and the seat back (and rear passengers cannot be accomodated due to lack of legroom), so if you are carrying something valuable it will be visible unless you cover it up, short term I used a black bin bag. Without the sliding seat it is impossible to carry any overnight baggage unless it is exposed with rear seats down.
To remedy the gap I have designed a cloth cover which is velcro fixed to the top of the rear seat and hooked over the inner rear flange of the parcel shelf with a 12mm dia. dowel through the back of the cover and on 2 hooks screwed together wth screws and nuts on the flange of parcel shelf. In addition a 6mm dia. dowel is fitted into a sewn recess across the shelf to stiffen cover and stop it flapping down at the rear corners, see photos, ideally you need to use heavy duty double sided foam adhesive to secure the velcro on seat backs otherwise the velcro tends to peel off (If you can get hold of it suggest 3Ms VHB 467 for industrial use, or similar). Incidentally if you partially move the seat forward its possible to hinge the backrest of the rear seat and increase the rake, trouble is only suitable for children as there is no legroom, but it ensures a more relaxed sleeping position on long journeys. Incidentally downside of having the sliding rear seat is that the car becomes a 4 seater only, there are just 2 seat belts in the back. Note to "Fiat", you could do better and sell the cover as an optional extra.
The Sqircle cluster Speedometer dial is difficult to accurately read, so when going through traffic safety (?) cameras I tend to use the Fiat Tom Tom Sat Nav Speed readout, unfortunately this is a case of style over function!
I have not had much success with the stop start which has only worked three times, in jams on the motorway during the day with ambient temperature over 20 degrees C, it is very frustrating when sat in traffic jams and the engine will not cut out.
Whilst the dashboard is aesthetically pleasing, the gloss black finish of the instrument cluster reflects a lot of light and is distracting in daytime. Suggest that Fiat purchase Speos Lighting from Optis software (Integrated with Catia) and do some simulation and analysis pror to signing off future models.
Perhaps the most surprising result of purchasing the Panda have been the adverse comments I have received from family and colleagues about my choice of car, seems very few people assess a car from a practical aspect, brand and style is more important to them.
I do realise that I have been crittical of the car, but the surprising thing about it is that getting in the car is always a pleasure. I suspect also that if I did mainly shorter journeys then the car would be more agreeable to drive. I stand firm in my convictions that it was an excellent purchase, roll on snow and winter.
Fiat Dealer Supplier experience.
The Panda was purchased from Fiat in Slough. The car was beautifully prepared and ready for collection, though there was a problem with the TomTom Sat Nav which would not receive a signal, but was returned and replaced with a working unit. Only other problem was with the rear parcel shelf which did not have strings attached. After the strings were despatched, it was noted that they did not fit and would not have worked anyway as they were the wrong length. Eventually I asked the salesman to try a parcel shelf from another Panda. It was then that they realised one shelf was shorter than the other, reason for this being that my car had a sliding rear seat thus was different in that it was shorter to accomodate more clearance and was also not fitted with strings. Note this should have been flagged up by Fiat in their user manual, would have made things easier both for customer and Garage. The other problem I had was on checking the engine oli level it was found to be on minimum, so I had to pay £40 for a gallon of Fiat engine oil to top up. Overall the supplying dealer gave good service and in particular an excellent price for the car, but the PDI check was not thorough enough or is it that Fiat was sloppy when filling up with engine oil!
First contact with local dealer.
On going through documentation and equipment it was noticed that the spare key as supplied was not remote locking, this meant that if it had to be used for some reason or another, the alarm would not turn off and re-arm.
It is well worth bearing this in mind if you order an alarm to be fitted, as its possible that the spare could be cheaper if factory ordered.
A spare remote key was ordered from the nearest Fiat dealer located in Rochdale. The cost was high over £200. I made it very clear to the gentleman on reception that they cover the seats and steering wheel and ensure no dirty marks were left on the interior, controls and door trims, that is for the car to be in pristine condition after the key was programmed. I was assured that the car would be protected and covered accordingly.
As an aside to this I had a bad experience when I was considering purchasing a new Alfa Romeo Coupe a few years ago. I was looking at the intended car in a Fiat showroom which happened to be in Bradford, West Yorkshire, when a mechanic in dirty overalls got into the car stretching over both front seats and started to disassemble a part under the dashboard, this put me off buying any car from Fiat dealers, I know when I have either worked on a car or in the garden I don't go and sit on our pale leather setee or armchairs and I'm equally sure that this mechanic would not have done the same in his house.
To cut a long story short, whilst the gentleman on Service reception was very helpful and accomodating and also the dealership had the same facilities as any Jaguar or BMW dealer including WiFi, TV and Coffee and Tea, the key was correctly programmed as I checked its operation before getting into the car, but on glancing in the car, the faux pas white leather and cloth on the drivers seat was visibly dirty and grubby, as was the passenger seat, the leather steering wheel and white plastic centre, also drivers inside door trim. I was needless to say disappointed. How difficult would it have been either to cover the seats and trim as was agreed, or inspect the car and clean up before releasing back to me, also I had expressed an interest in purchasing the dealer lifetime guarantee whch would have assured servicing for the next 10 years as well as the fee involved.
Its surprising that there was no communication or lack of adherance to instructions between Service reception and Technicians in the Workshop.
I later received a call from Fiat UK asking how well the work was carried out by the garage, I also gave permission for the recording to be relayed to the garage.
No response has been received from the Garage.
Apologies for the lengthy essay on my experiences to date, but here goes, I hope also that Fiat UK and affiliated garages in the UK read this and take note.
Purchase requirements.
The Panda was purchased as a second car to be used along with current Jaguar S Type 4.2 V8 which was approaching 90,000 miles, though it has proved to be the most reliable car I've ever had recently, including several BMW's, a Mini Cooper S and X Type 3.0 4x4, I felt a backup car was needed, because of the nature of the job involved, working away and reliably travelling to Clients in the UK.
Regarding choice of car, initially I specced up a Range Rover Evoque, but what put me off was the cost, specced up was over £42,000, also reports that fuel consumption of the SD4 model was 30 mpg, which was far too high especially for a diesel.
Eventually after much deliberation I decided the car was to be practical, ignoring brand name, styling, I tried to purchase a vehicle mainly on ability and meeting requirements which were important and relevant to my driving needs. In view of the high expenditure on expensive cars in the past, I determined to reduce purchase costs. I was also concerned that my business running costs were spiralling upwards by 5 to 10% annually thus reducing profit margins and that these increases could not be offset by charging customers extra.
Perceived requirements for a suitable car were as follows:-
1. Good economy, efficient engine, capable of both Town and Motorway journeys, engine revs at 70 to 80 mph not to exceed 3500 to 4000 rpm.
2. Low cost, Low Tax, cheap to insure, petrol engine preferred less polluting than diesel and smoother in operation.
3. Four wheel drive, mud and snow tyres for all season use (So that winter tyres were no longer necessary as used on Jaguar), potentially to insure against predicted future harsh winters and to ensure that journeys to Clients were possible in adverse conditions.
4. Reliable proven mechanical components, cheap servicing, long service intervals.
5. To have a good ride comensurate with todays poor quality road surfaces, capable of traversing potholes and sleeping policemen without crashing the suspension, comfortable on long journeys.
6. Have capability of carrying large(ish) loads when seats folded.
7. Equipment to include adjustable front and rear seats and steering, heated seats windscreen and mirrors for winter, bluetooth for mobile phone, fixed Sat Nav on Dash, cruise control to help maintain speeds complying with variable speed cameras, stop start, auto climate control, pollen filter, alarm, rear parking sensor, armrests, auto gearbox.
8. Good vision and visibilty preferably position of seats to be higher than normal.
9. Reasonable handling and good crash protection with side airbags to cover body from all angles.
Out of all the possible vehicles and after reading road tests in Autocar, Car and Top Gear magazines as well as trawling through test reports on the internet I became particularly interested in the 4x4 Panda. After a lengthy road test in December 2012, the vehicle was duly ordered with the above and other additional optional extras, though it was not possible to have cruise control, centre armrest and auto gearbox fitted.
Comments on ownership of car after 2500 miles on 16th September 2013.
Overall pleased with the Panda and it is generally comfortable and well built, the view through the front windscreen is good from the lofty position and the petrol filler cap is a work of genius and so easy to use. Parking is also easy as its a small car. Also I cannot wait to use the 4 wheel drive when Winter and snow comes. Panda is refined for its size and is reasonably quiet on motorway runs. Mud and Snow tyres are however noisy on broken surfaces due to their tread pattern and softer compound.
Not so with slightly bouncy ride, typical italian trait of long arm short legs positioning of steering wheel and pedals incurring discomfort over long distances, lack of centre armrest and upright seating position causes tension in shoulder muscles (this may have been alleviated by having optional reach in/out adjustable steering wheel), forward edge of seat base too high up or firmly upholstered causing discomfort in thighs on long journeys. In addition to this poor fuel consumption particularly on motorways at 70 mph and above is about 37 to 42 mpg, though it must be said that sedate driving on country roads and motorways below 50 mph gives 47+ mpg, I had however expected better. Its relative height and wheel arch clearance means that in windy conditions the car is blown about.
The steering with or without city assistance has little feel to it, as if the wheels are not connected to the road so it is difficult to accurately turn corners, this makes it feel less like a drivers car.
The engine sounds gruff and rattles just like a diesel therefore is rather unrefined and despite being aware that it is a two cylinder engine it is nonetheless difficult to accept, also there are blind spots due to the intrusive A pillars and mirrors which despite the large window areas can cause difficulty in parking.
Lack of cruise control and auto gearbox increases stress on long journeys and when going past variable speed cameras, "Fiat"! these should definitely have been optional extras.
The sliding rear seat has proved a godsend as when slid forward it releases an extra 8" (approx) of luggage space, this means that a large suitcase and smaller ones can be carried, covered up in the boot. However there is a downside, with the rear seat slid forward there is a gap between the parcel shelf and the seat back (and rear passengers cannot be accomodated due to lack of legroom), so if you are carrying something valuable it will be visible unless you cover it up, short term I used a black bin bag. Without the sliding seat it is impossible to carry any overnight baggage unless it is exposed with rear seats down.
To remedy the gap I have designed a cloth cover which is velcro fixed to the top of the rear seat and hooked over the inner rear flange of the parcel shelf with a 12mm dia. dowel through the back of the cover and on 2 hooks screwed together wth screws and nuts on the flange of parcel shelf. In addition a 6mm dia. dowel is fitted into a sewn recess across the shelf to stiffen cover and stop it flapping down at the rear corners, see photos, ideally you need to use heavy duty double sided foam adhesive to secure the velcro on seat backs otherwise the velcro tends to peel off (If you can get hold of it suggest 3Ms VHB 467 for industrial use, or similar). Incidentally if you partially move the seat forward its possible to hinge the backrest of the rear seat and increase the rake, trouble is only suitable for children as there is no legroom, but it ensures a more relaxed sleeping position on long journeys. Incidentally downside of having the sliding rear seat is that the car becomes a 4 seater only, there are just 2 seat belts in the back. Note to "Fiat", you could do better and sell the cover as an optional extra.
The Sqircle cluster Speedometer dial is difficult to accurately read, so when going through traffic safety (?) cameras I tend to use the Fiat Tom Tom Sat Nav Speed readout, unfortunately this is a case of style over function!
I have not had much success with the stop start which has only worked three times, in jams on the motorway during the day with ambient temperature over 20 degrees C, it is very frustrating when sat in traffic jams and the engine will not cut out.
Whilst the dashboard is aesthetically pleasing, the gloss black finish of the instrument cluster reflects a lot of light and is distracting in daytime. Suggest that Fiat purchase Speos Lighting from Optis software (Integrated with Catia) and do some simulation and analysis pror to signing off future models.
Perhaps the most surprising result of purchasing the Panda have been the adverse comments I have received from family and colleagues about my choice of car, seems very few people assess a car from a practical aspect, brand and style is more important to them.
I do realise that I have been crittical of the car, but the surprising thing about it is that getting in the car is always a pleasure. I suspect also that if I did mainly shorter journeys then the car would be more agreeable to drive. I stand firm in my convictions that it was an excellent purchase, roll on snow and winter.
Fiat Dealer Supplier experience.
The Panda was purchased from Fiat in Slough. The car was beautifully prepared and ready for collection, though there was a problem with the TomTom Sat Nav which would not receive a signal, but was returned and replaced with a working unit. Only other problem was with the rear parcel shelf which did not have strings attached. After the strings were despatched, it was noted that they did not fit and would not have worked anyway as they were the wrong length. Eventually I asked the salesman to try a parcel shelf from another Panda. It was then that they realised one shelf was shorter than the other, reason for this being that my car had a sliding rear seat thus was different in that it was shorter to accomodate more clearance and was also not fitted with strings. Note this should have been flagged up by Fiat in their user manual, would have made things easier both for customer and Garage. The other problem I had was on checking the engine oli level it was found to be on minimum, so I had to pay £40 for a gallon of Fiat engine oil to top up. Overall the supplying dealer gave good service and in particular an excellent price for the car, but the PDI check was not thorough enough or is it that Fiat was sloppy when filling up with engine oil!
First contact with local dealer.
On going through documentation and equipment it was noticed that the spare key as supplied was not remote locking, this meant that if it had to be used for some reason or another, the alarm would not turn off and re-arm.
It is well worth bearing this in mind if you order an alarm to be fitted, as its possible that the spare could be cheaper if factory ordered.
A spare remote key was ordered from the nearest Fiat dealer located in Rochdale. The cost was high over £200. I made it very clear to the gentleman on reception that they cover the seats and steering wheel and ensure no dirty marks were left on the interior, controls and door trims, that is for the car to be in pristine condition after the key was programmed. I was assured that the car would be protected and covered accordingly.
As an aside to this I had a bad experience when I was considering purchasing a new Alfa Romeo Coupe a few years ago. I was looking at the intended car in a Fiat showroom which happened to be in Bradford, West Yorkshire, when a mechanic in dirty overalls got into the car stretching over both front seats and started to disassemble a part under the dashboard, this put me off buying any car from Fiat dealers, I know when I have either worked on a car or in the garden I don't go and sit on our pale leather setee or armchairs and I'm equally sure that this mechanic would not have done the same in his house.
To cut a long story short, whilst the gentleman on Service reception was very helpful and accomodating and also the dealership had the same facilities as any Jaguar or BMW dealer including WiFi, TV and Coffee and Tea, the key was correctly programmed as I checked its operation before getting into the car, but on glancing in the car, the faux pas white leather and cloth on the drivers seat was visibly dirty and grubby, as was the passenger seat, the leather steering wheel and white plastic centre, also drivers inside door trim. I was needless to say disappointed. How difficult would it have been either to cover the seats and trim as was agreed, or inspect the car and clean up before releasing back to me, also I had expressed an interest in purchasing the dealer lifetime guarantee whch would have assured servicing for the next 10 years as well as the fee involved.
Its surprising that there was no communication or lack of adherance to instructions between Service reception and Technicians in the Workshop.
I later received a call from Fiat UK asking how well the work was carried out by the garage, I also gave permission for the recording to be relayed to the garage.
No response has been received from the Garage.
