Hi Guys,

Recently traded in my beloved 60Reg Punto Evo for a new Panda Lounge.

The problem is after 3.5k i have started getting a booming vibration noise through the cabin at around 2500rpm, this only happens when the car is either cold or if it has been wet and raining. after about 15 minutes it goes, but for that period its really intrusive.

The dealer has checked the exhaust, checked for loose heat shields and has removed the dash and re-sited the heater box, however this morning its still doing it!!

Anyone else have the same problem? I love the car however this noise is spoiling things a bit.

Major problems with twin air engines. I know I said in my previous post they are awesome piece of engineering but believe me, it'll spend lot of time at the dealers. Too much vibration, the dual mass flywheel has been wrongly designed, timing chain rattle and various other problems with twin air engines. I was on auto express magazine for these issues and fiat are only replacing/repairing for people who are really complaining hard enough. Take care and try to experience for yourselves. Thank you.

I'm on my second twin air car. Both have been great. I personally think it's a fantastic little engine.

I've not seen many people on here complaining of major problems if any.

Only time will tell if there are any real problems with the design

deeyup said:

I'm on my second twin air car. Both have been great. I personally think it's a fantastic little engine.

I've not seen many people on here complaining of major problems if any.

Only time will tell if there are any real problems with the design

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Agreed!

I thought the Twinair 85HP in the Panda had a solid flywheel, with the
dual-mass used only for the 105HP as in the 500L etc.

I try to avoid dual-mass flywheels, given their durability issues



Chris

Hi Guys,

Well my problem is being suffered on a 1.2 Petrol!!

so suggestions would be gratefully appreciated!!!!

javnas said:

Major problems with twin air engines. I know I said in my previous post they are awesome piece of engineering but believe me, it'll spend lot of time at the dealers. Too much vibration, the dual mass flywheel has been wrongly designed, timing chain rattle and various other problems with twin air engines. I was on auto express magazine for these issues and fiat are only replacing/repairing for people who are really complaining hard enough. Take care and try to experience for yourselves. Thank you.

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You're 'jumping the gun' a bit as from his post in another thread the OP has the 1.2 engine - not the TA.

smprout said:

Hi Guys,

Well my problem is being suffered on a 1.2 Petrol!!

so suggestions would be gratefully appreciated!!!!

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Yeah, certainly doesn't sound right at all.

I would say that our 1.2 Panda does sound quite loud and a bit rattly when the engine is cold and the revs are building up, but I can't say that it makes a sound like you've describe.

Would you be able to get someone else to travel with you and take a video of the sound in the cabin? That might help others on here to offer a suggestion.

Expect of course that when you try and film it, it won't happen...

It's not your air con on de-mist is it?

UPDATE

Dealer has called today and has confirmed the noise/vibration.

It is a fault on one of the cylinders so will either need a engine rebuild and repair or a new engine!!!!

Not happy with this on a 5 month old car with 3.5k on the clock

smprout said:

UPDATE

Dealer has called today and has confirmed the noise/vibration.

It is a fault on one of the cylinders so will either need a engine rebuild and repair or a new engine!!!!

Not happy with this on a 5 month old car with 3.5k on the clock

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Intriguing - would be interested to hear what's actually gone awry as the symptoms sound really weird.

smprout said:

Hi Guys,

Well my problem is being suffered on a 1.2 Petrol!!

so suggestions would be gratefully appreciated!!!!

Click to expand...

I'd guessed it wasn't an engine thing..,
have you placed a passenger in different spots trying to localise the sound..??,

what road speed do those revs equate to..??,

seems like a wheel/tyre resonance to me,

Charlie

Hi Guys,

As mentioned it has nothing to do with road speed, but only occurs at 2500rpm and only when the car is cold, or when its wet.

I will have an update from the dealer today so will ppost another update later, however they tell me that this will be the 2nd panda with the same problem. they also replaced the engine on the 1st one.

smprout said:

Hi Guys,

As mentioned it has nothing to do with road speed, but only occurs at 2500rpm and only when the car is cold, or when its wet.

I will have an update from the dealer today so will ppost another update later, however they tell me that this will be the 2nd panda with the same problem. they also replaced the engine on the 1st one.

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When the car's cold or the weather's wet; 2500 revs is about the peak of the torque curve I think - peak internal engine pressures - so that's when marginal elements of the ignition system break down. It sounds like an electrical/electronic issue rather than a mechanical one but presumably the dealer either knows what's going on from experience or they change enough to eliminate the problem without actually knowing what it is.

Hi All,

Update, the dealer has confirmed that the engine has been inspected by an independent engine specialist, who has taken reading and calibrations and the engine requires Honing the bores and new pistons as these were incorrect on manufacture or a total engine replacement.

Some time ago, not sure where, I heard of a 1.2 FIRE engine having one odd sized piston. That car was quite old.
As the engine is entirely built by robots, it does need all the components to be correct as they arrive at the assembly point. A person building the engine would notice. Makes you wonder if one of four pistons is wrong, is the next engine along the line similar, etc. .....

Interesting, were there any other 'symptoms' of this ..such as excessive fuel consumption, oil loss, or the car getting up to running temperature very quickly (due to a tight piston)?

I'm thinking some other damage to the engine might have been done which may manifest as other problems much later on.

Think I'd be happier with a new engine based on Fiats 'Diagnosis'

Vic

It was probably more like a loose piston, that is, there was excessive clearance between the piston and the cylinder wall.

This way, when the engine was cold, before any thermal expansion of the piston, it "banged" against the cylinder wall twice (once going upwards, once going downwards, at opposite sides of the cylinder) on every crankshaft rotation, causing vibration that could not be absorbed by the counterbalancing systems of the engine.

Once the engine heated up and the piston expanded somewhat, the symptoms would probably disappeared.



If the piston was too tight, after thermal expansion it would seize inside the cylinder and such an engine would be caught easily at the factory QC.


BTW, with the loose piston situation, the cylinder is also damaged because all this sideways banging of the piston is not doing anything good to the cylinder, so replacing the piston with a properly sized one is not an acceptable solution for a vehicle under warranty.

Hi All,

Many thanks for your comments. Yes damage was caused to the wall of the cylinder and also replacement pistons were required as well. Fiat would only authorise a re bore of the cylinders and new pistons, not a new engine. so under the sale of goods act i rejected the car through the dealer and the finance company. This has today been upheld and a new car is on the way...

smprout said:

Hi All,

Many thanks for your comments. Yes damage was caused to the wall of the cylinder and also replacement pistons were required as well. Fiat would only authorise a re bore of the cylinders and new pistons, not a new engine. so under the sale of goods act i rejected the car through the dealer and the finance company. This has today been upheld and a new car is on the way...

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Sounds like a good result in the end, I hope you haven't been left without a car whilst the new one is on it's way?

Yes they have left me in a lovely (NOT) Nissan Micra for the last month since mine has been in the workshop!!!!!!!!!!!!